Local 'archaeology' - anyone know the origin of these?

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Tuesday 10 November 2009 9.06pm
A couple of curiosities - well, to me at least. The marker post is outside a nondescript building near the north end of Druid Street. The chiselled pavement graffiti is on Tooley Street, (the blue marks are courtesy of Thames Water, so I hope this slab escapes being dug up).



Tuesday 10 November 2009 10.04pm
Interesting photos!

Looks like someone has asked the same question before about your first photo (scroll to the end of the page).
Wednesday 11 November 2009 10.15pm
The marker stone looks like a traditional waypost or maybe boundary stone. A sign post to tell travelers how far they were from which town or hamlet and vaguely which direction it was in. The other photo I have no clue about.
Thursday 12 November 2009 10.42pm
Given the date, my only thought is that is might be following the Georgian convention for overly Latinate inscriptions and the I in fact stands for Iohannes and it is a boundary marker between the parishes of St Olave and St John Horsleydown.
Thursday 12 November 2009 10.51pm
Actually, if that marker is on the bit of Druid Street that runs north-south as a continuation of Whites Grounds, isn't that the site of the former Poor Law Union workhouse for St Olaves and St James parishes?

http://www.workhouses.org.uk/index.html?StOlave/StOlave.shtml
Friday 13 November 2009 12.17am
Lang Rabbie wrote:
Given the date, my only thought is that is might be following the Georgian convention for overly Latinate inscriptions and the I in fact stands for Iohannes and it is a boundary marker between the parishes of St Olave and St John Horsleydown.

I saw this thread yesterday and stayed up far too late looking up local history on the internet. (Well, I suppose it's not local history for me now, seeing as I'm on the other side of the world...) This morning it was the first thing I thought of when I woke up, and I was thinking, "Where's Lang Rabbie when you need him?" And then I saw that you had posted!

Anyway, I thought it was a boundary marker between the two parishes as well, assuming that its at the top end of Druid Street that adjoins Tooley Street (that part of Druid St used to be called Parish Street).

In "The City and Antiquities of London, Westminster, Southwark and Parts adjacent" (1827), Thomas Allen says, "The bounds of this parish [St John, Horsleydown] are as follows: commencing at St. Saviour's dock, it pursues a southerly course, through Russel-street [now Tanner street] and Church-street [now part of Tower Bridge Road], to Artillery-lane [now Druid Street] and Crucifix-lane, up Bermondsey-street, down Tooley-street to Potter's-fields, and from thence to the Thames."

(Interestingly, Stanford's map of parish boundaries published in 1877 shows the boundary to be slightly different to that described above, putting what is now Potters' Fields into the parish of St John, but as Potters' Fields used to be the churchyard for St Olave's that seems a bit odd to me, unless the boundary was changed between 1827 and 1877.)

So where exactly is the marker, Jane?
Friday 13 November 2009 12.25am
The Lady Miss Jo Jo wrote:

I saw this thread yesterday and stayed up far too late looking up local history on the internet. (Well, I suppose it's not local history for me now, seeing as I'm on the other side of the world...) This morning it was the first thing I thought of when I woke up, and I was thinking, "Where's Lang Rabbie when you need him?"

It's nice to be appreciated...

Hope you are well in the Antipodes - envying your imminent arrival of spring as the rain sets in here and my ceilings drip ominously.
Sunday 15 November 2009 6.24pm
With regard to the chiselled stone engraving, there are a number like this around the St John's Horsleydown churchyard. Wherever they came from (possibly the churchyard itself), they seem to have been used randomly when relaying them!

They have partial inscriptions and I tried to see if any actually made sense as a pair but could not find any related ones.
Sunday 15 November 2009 8.56pm
@ Lang Rabbie: I knew I could rely on you for a considered response, and the interpretation of the inscription makes sense.
@TLMJJ; the exact location is almost at the north end of Druid Street, on the left side just before the junction with Tooley Street. (I could send you some scene setting pics if required) It has obviously been carefully cared for and perhaps re-sited following construction of the building adjacent to it. Next time you are here....
@Possel: thank you for a well researched insight. I can only wonder at the skill of the original graffiti artist - the meaning will have to remain a curiosity. I hope it survives the current attentions of Thames Water.

p.s; as an anal retentive's and researcher's paradise, the internet cannot be beaten, somewhere out there the answer can be found through some obscure sites!

p.p.s; all the more entertaining when the research is done by fellow SE1ers - and NZSE1ers!
Thursday 3 December 2009 11.22am
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