The Borough

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Monday 23 May 2011 2.28pm
...or just "Borough".
Is Borough defined by specific streets, or is it undefined? Clearly, Marshalsea Road is in the Borough, but is, say, Tooley Street?
Any ideas?
Monday 23 May 2011 2.59pm
hey,

I am not totally sure there is an "official" area marked as the Borough, I have always considered the residential area's surrounding Borough High street as "The Borough" so say from the west side Redcross way area, through to the east side running up the back of Guys Hospital, then south to Borough police station and north to where Kehoe's is on Borough h st.

In my eyes I wouldn't consider Tooley street as the Borough, I would either call it London bridge, tower brigde or even further down as Bermondsey.

be interested to see what others would consider?

Sam
Monday 23 May 2011 3.13pm
There was a debate on here some time ago as to where Bermondsey finished and we (as in SE1 ers) came to the conclusion it was Kipling street-there was some historical reasoning for this if I remember correctly (i am sure someone will tell me if it was otherwise)so that would I guess be where Borough starts.
Tuesday 24 May 2011 12.24am
After 27 years of libving se1 /se16. I always assumed borough was from towerbridge road up long lane to southwark Bridge Road, and down Great dover street.
Tuesday 24 May 2011 9.01am
I'd say "The Borough". I think it sounds nicer.

But as to where it starts and stops.....I really don't know. I'm guessing that there must have been an official boundary when the name was first used. The Borough of......[??]

You can arrive at a definition by excluding various streets because they belong to e.g. Bermondsey or Ldn Bridge, and then you call The Borough what's left in the middle. I suppose I'd have Borough surrounded by Ldn Bridge, Bricklayers Arms, Southwark, Bermondsey, and Banskide. Must admit though (despite the undeniable presence of B Sq and B St), Bermondsey for me has always started East of TBR.

Personally, I'd say that Borough Market was in London Bridge. I'd have the southern limit of Borough defined by Borough Road (and then, by extension, I suppose, Harper Road).

...if you press it, they will come.
Tuesday 24 May 2011 9.20am
The name originally covered what is now Borough High Street and the very immediate area around it. That's all there was then, and it was called Long Southwark. It included the Cathedral and market.
Railway and tube stations become areas though and I'd go along with Ivanhoe in that Borough Market is now in a new area called London Bridge. I think most people would say a place was in Borough if it was near the tube station.
Tuesday 24 May 2011 9.25am
Thanks folks. - I'm working on a map which I'll post when I can. How about The Borough being defined as bounded by Falmouth Road, Harper Road, Borough Road, Southwark Bridge road, Southwark Street, St Thomas Street and Weston Street??
Tuesday 24 May 2011 9.35am
Well it's all subjective but that doesn't feel quite right to me. It would put Guys in the borough and I think if we're to think of London Bridge as an area then Guys is in that. I would say the presence of LB station to the East of BHS prevents the Borough stretching up as far north and as far East. So it can go as far as Southwark Street on the west side of BHS but stops say at Newcommen Street on the east side, and the estate in the area between Newcommen and Long lane is in London Bridge and Borough. I'd say the area immediately south of Guys, like where the Miller is gets to be more London Bridge.
Tuesday 24 May 2011 12.45pm
beetroot wrote:
The name originally covered what is now Borough High Street and the very immediate area around it. That's all there was then, and it was called Long Southwark. It included the Cathedral and market.

That's interesting. I'm guessing, then, that "London Bridge" in those days was a term just used to describe the actual bridge, rather than the area around it. I wonder when that changed, and London Bridge became an area. (Quite possibly when ye firste Estayte Aygente set up on BHS).

I'd not heard of "Long Southwark" before. Do you mean that the same area was called both LS and Borough at the same time? Would I be right to assume that in those days "Southwark" was a bigger area, covering what we now break down into Bankside, Borough, Ldn Bridge, etc? (I'm guessing that the answer to this is "Yes", given that it would cover the Cathedral as well as The Globe)

(I don't necessarily expect that you'll know any/all of the answers, beetroot, but if anyone did know, than I'd be interested to hear. Thanks)

...if you press it, they will come.
Tuesday 24 May 2011 1.05pm
Ivanhoe wrote:
I'd not heard of "Long Southwark" before. Do you mean that the same area was called both LS and Borough at the same time?

Long Southwark was the name of the road that is now BHS. At least that's what I've read. I have wondered though if the T-shape with lots of open space around it might mean that Long Southwark was describing the north-south line in general.
The whole area though was the borough Southwark (from South Work).
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