Empty parking ticket envelope

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Sunday 10 July 2011 5.58pm
Has anyone else found an empty parking ticket envelope placed on their windscreen? I'm concerned that a Parking Attendant may have forgotten to put the Penalty Control Notice inside the envelope, thus depriving the recipient of the chance to appeal within 14 days, whilst still being able to photograph the car apparently ticketed.
Sunday 10 July 2011 9.24pm
Interesting. There was a car parked yesterday, on the Lambeth side of Hatfields that had been ticketed. I saw another parking attendant take the ticket out from the plastic 'bag', he didn't seem to have any of the usual machinery with him, just the uniform and hat, which is what caught my attention. I assumed he was checking it.
Monday 11 July 2011 5.20pm
Kids also often remove these to be 'helpful' (ahem). Your fine will still be valid so it might be worth a call to Southwark's Parking people (on 0844 800 2736) and if you provide your vrm you should be able to get the PCN number (they also have a facility to view the images here: http://southwarkpcns.apcoa.com/ , but you'll need the PCN number to access them, along with your VRM.)

Hope this helps.

(Used to work in parking, for my sins...)
Monday 11 July 2011 6.15pm
Hmmm, before you do that Graham...

Because the envelope was empty, you won't know the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) number. An empty envelope means that the PCN has been "incorrectly served".

You might like to do some research before ringing anyone and admitting to anything, especially with a PCN "incorrectly served".

As a start - have a look here and search for "pcn empty envelope".

Good luck mate.
Tuesday 12 July 2011 9.06am
i had this happen the other day, i called the local parking shop and gave them my reg and they confirmed of any parking tickets that my car had had. may be worth calling them to see if there is any outstanding
Tuesday 12 July 2011 11.16am
There is some useful advice at:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t33893.html

and

http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t56340.html

The council in question in one of the cases appears to assert that proper service of the PCN is irrelevant. Other people speculate that it does matter.

There is a description in one of the threads of Southwark Paring as "notorious".
Tuesday 12 July 2011 1.48pm
Seems my empty envelope is not the first.
Thanks for the link re waiting times, a bare five minutes to unload in central London is obviously not enough. I have submitted a challenge.
Tuesday 12 July 2011 5.12pm
An empty envelope does not mean it's not been correctly served at all (there's usually a picture taken of the PCN to prove that it was served).

The Parking Attendant would have absolutely no motive to not stick it on... A second Parking Attendant seen would have been checking the ticket as you can only issue one PCN to the same vehicle in the same place on any given day (any multiple PCNs would be reflected in the parking attendants' statistics and if they showed to be habitual it would probably be a disciplinary offence. It could be construed to be a way of them pushing up their issue numbers and it costs the council for paper, time etc cancelling and writing back to the owner of the vehicle and puts the council in a bad light so it is seriously discouraged from the council's side.)

Graham, the 5 minutes is just the observation period given only to commercial and commercially marked vehicles (this 'rule' changes Borough to Borough). You actually have 20 minutes to unload on a single yellow (where no loading restrictions) provided that you attend the vehicle once every 5 minutes... - If you're loading while parked on the pavement though someone who is able to drive it) needs to stay with the vehicle at all times. (Did you know that? It's because our pavements are not built to carry loads anything like what a road can and lots of water/ gas mains (and other services) run under pavements and so can be badly damaged by heavy vehicles sitting on top.)

Just trying to be helpful and let you know the actual legislation that councils use rather than hearsay and speculation... (I worked in parking for 9 years (as a system analyst-software developer) so had to know the actual legalities involved in order to develop the software around it...)
Tuesday 12 July 2011 11.45pm
Gwynaethva wrote:
An empty envelope does not mean it's not been correctly served at all (there's usually a picture taken of the PCN to prove that it was served).
The Parking Attendant would have absolutely no motive to not stick it on... A second Parking Attendant seen would have been checking the ticket as you can only issue one PCN to the same vehicle in the same place on any given day (any multiple PCNs would be reflected in the parking attendants' statistics and if they showed to be habitual it would probably be a disciplinary offence. It could be construed to be a way of them pushing up their issue numbers and it costs the council for paper, time etc cancelling and writing back to the owner of the vehicle and puts the council in a bad light so it is seriously discouraged from the council's side.)

Graham, the 5 minutes is just the observation period given only to commercial and commercially marked vehicles (this 'rule' changes Borough to Borough). You actually have 20 minutes to unload on a single yellow (where no loading restrictions) provided that you attend the vehicle once every 5 minutes... - If you're loading while parked on the pavement though someone who is able to drive it) needs to stay with the vehicle at all times. (Did you know that? It's because our pavements are not built to carry loads anything like what a road can and lots of water/ gas mains (and other services) run under pavements and so can be badly damaged by heavy vehicles sitting on top.)

Just trying to be helpful and let you know the actual legislation that councils use rather than hearsay and speculation... (I worked in parking for 9 years (as a system analyst-software developer) so had to know the actual legalities involved in order to develop the software around it...)

That is quite informative, thanks!
Wednesday 13 July 2011 4.14pm
eDWaRD WooDWaRD wrote:

That is quite informative, thanks!

It's a pleasure! It's nice to be helpful - my speciality of mundane knowledge doesn't come up in a way where I can be of help very often!

I should probably also point out the the Parking Attendants also note the wheel valve positions and the precise location on the road. So it means that if you parked and got a ticket, then drove away and parked back there later (with the PCN still on the windscreen) that you could get another PCN... (Although you would possibly get away with it if you appealed it). But if the car wasn't moved then that would be the case...

Any other questions about parking?? lol
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