Borough Market

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Wednesday 21 March 2012 2.19pm
Has anyone seen the latest structure being built in the middle of the market. The market promised to share their vision but i have trawled SE1 and their website and cant find anything? Found the following link : http://www.southwark.anglican.org/thebridge/0104/page22.htm. Camilla mcgibbon, I would assume is taking a very active role, to ensure that we don't end up with a something akin to a railway instead of a proper market? I know from a tenant of United St Saviour of wich she is a Trustee that they their MD recently said that they are hoping to develop a little Covent Garden. It would appear that it has already begun with the likes of Aesop being brought on board. Does this mean that Borough Market forms part of this wider strategy for the area? Will higher rents advantage United St Saviours and the private properties of those who live close to the Market and serve on these boards. Also, perhaps having Donald Hyslop on board is helpful from an architectural point of view. He will certainly ensure that the market is returned to us as a proper market not a look alike railway structure. Again can only assume as cannot find any information anywhere? Anyone have any ideas?
Wednesday 21 March 2012 7.02pm
damc,

Borough Market Trust and United St Saviours are separate organisations, though I believe Camilla McGibbon is currently involved with both. They own different bits of land and buildings around the BM area and are separately responsible for deciding who they take on as tenants. There are several, extensive threads on this forum with some of the history of the events around BM over the last few years, if you care to search.

United SS own most of the terrace on Park Street where Aesop are situated. I understand that the current leases will revert to USS (from Network Rail) once work on the viaduct to the rear of the terrace is complete. USS are currently seeking permission to undertake extensive work to the terrace, adding a top floor and making internal alterations to increase the density of flats in the buildings. Apart from several protected tenancies, these flats will be made available at commercial rents to maximise income for USS. The density of their proposed scheme is appalling, imo, but despite local objections to the scale of the scheme and the alterations to the buildings, it's (unfortunately) likely that USS will get the required planning permission. Meanwhile, the protected tenants are fearful that USS will seek to increase their rents over and above the current terms of their agreements once they can demonstrate that 'improvements' have been made to their flats. It's doubtful that the tenants need or want these 'improvements'. Sadly, some of the proposed work would not be necessary if USS had properly maintained the properties over the years.

If true, it is not surprising that the MD of USS has said wants the area to increasingly resemble Covent Garden (it already does so since the arrival of Paul Smith several years ago). He no doubt realises this will only enhance the potential rental return USS can get from tenants. The current retail outlets in that part of Park Street are on short leases and will have to move out before work starts. If they want to return they may well be greeted by inflated rents.

The development of BM has been a separate issue, and the subject of negotiation between the BM Trust and Network Rail, who will soon be handing back the land around Bedale and Stoney St that was decimated to build the new viaduct. I understand the Jubilee Market (car park) traders are to relocate to those spaces, but are currently being mucked about by the BM management over the plans, so nothing changes there then, despite the departure of the (unlamented by most) Glynis Reagan.

I don't quite understand what point you are making re Hyslop's influence on the architecture. The proposals for the replacement buildings were drawn up and widely publicised several years ago, but I don't know what (if any)say he had in their design or that of the new viaduct.

What do you mean by the question 'Does this mean that Borough Market forms part of this wider strategy for the area?'. Who's 'wider strategy'?
Thursday 22 March 2012 12.34am
Thanks Spartacus

I have looked through the different Borough Market threads and it makes interesting reading. There was a promise to share a vision with the wider community but this has not been posted anywhere, not even the website. Presumably there has been a consultation process. Has anyone attended such a meeting? Whilst trawling I found an application by Borough Market to retain the Jubilee Market roof, which was originally a temporary measure during the Thameslink works. Has anyone been consulted on this?

Is there is not a conflict of interest when you have a Trustee who is on the board of two charities with contrasting objectives for this area? The USS trust appears to be a landlord and their sole objective is to maximise their rental income. Borough Markets objectives (according to their website) is to enrich the quality of life of the local community. Does anyone know what this means?

It seems obvious (perhaps not) that the community does not understand the Borough Market property strategy. If USS is talking about creating a ‘Covent Garden’ as their property strategy in our part of the world, it would be fair to assume that Mcgibbon (chairs the USS property committee) is a strong advocate of this strategy. Does this strategy apply to Borough Market too? By allowing Aesop, a commercially strong brand, into the close vicinity of Borough Market it seems obvious that the USS strategy overrides that of Borough Market. Also, I note that although it is a USS property, Aesop has a Borough Market email so is Borough Market branded.

I note your point on the Management. Read that that there was a shake-up of sorts. According to some Traders not much has changed and there seems to be a 'pass the buck' syndrome amongst the management and Trustees, "who are only interested in keeping their jobs and reputations safe rather than do what is right for the Market or its Traders".

I met Hyslop towards last year and he told a group of us that he was personally overseeing the 16-26 BHS building and the architectural design of the Thameslink works related to the Market only. Presumably he and Management recommended the concrete structures that have recently been erected?

Apologies if this is all very confusing but it reflects my own confusion. I continue to research. Any further insight would be greatly appreciated.
Thursday 22 March 2012 9.58am
I had the impression that the space that is occupied by Network Rail (as a building site) will go back to Borough Market, and traders will move in as a consequence. It is written even on the boards that fence the site..

On the other hand, I think that Park street is not technically Borough Market, and the management cannot do anything to control what is placed in those premises. But I might be wrong.

I don't know Aesop well, but I welcome more and more shops like this in replacement of fake Italian bars like the ones that used to be there.. In my opinion there is still one too many of those "italian cafe'" (I cannot remember the name).. I can tell you that the closest thing they have in common with Italy is some misspelled item on their menu.
Thursday 22 March 2012 10.56am
Orione

Thanks. From the response to my original email, it would appear that Borogh Market and United Saint Saviour owns property in Park Street. The have a Trustee in common, Mcgibbon who is the Chair of the Property Committe of USS (as specified on their website). One cannot serve two masters?

I saw on one of the threads that some Traders were asked to join a committee to work with Management and trustees. Presumably , they have input into decsions now? Do the Traders on this commitee decide who moves back into that space? I cannot see a remit for this Committee on the website. Does anyone know of any Trader on that committee? There is not much information to hand. I also cannot find a planning application for the two concrete structures?

Anyhow, will let you know what I find.
Thursday 22 March 2012 7.11pm
evening all - i'm a trader at the market. another trader sent me a link to this exchange. as i am very sad and do little else except sit around and talk about borough market all day long, and am involved in some of the discussions and planning about the future, if there are any questions that you want to throw at me i will give answering them my best shot. but a distillation of the above exchanges would help. if this isn't forthcoming, i'll have a go at answering later on tonight on the train. off to jose's (sp) now. very excited...
Thursday 22 March 2012 9.24pm
Hi Philip. Nice to talk to you.
I think we all agree on the fact that, as residents and customers, we love Borough Market and we would like to have it as it is and even better rather than see it converted into a turist trap. (I have to say that lately is getting better).

My questions are:
what will happen with the new space that is now occupied by network rail? Is this going to be for real food traders?

What about the new development on BHS, what is it going to be in there? Hopefully not just offices.

And... Do you guys at Borough Market have the possibility to expand into some of the buildings that surround the Market and that were supposed to be used as school for
Chef in the past? They looked vacant not so
Long ago..

Last: how much real decision power do you traders have over the future of BM? How do you see the future of the Market?

Thank you for your info.
Thursday 22 March 2012 10.02pm
orione wrote:
I think we all agree on the fact that, as residents and customers, we love Borough Market

Nope. I don't agree.

It's full of burger noshing tourists and some of us avoid both like the plague.
Thursday 22 March 2012 10.14pm
Boss st bloke.. Shall we start again with the tourists thing.. Of course is full of tourists. Is central London and is an iconic place. But how lucky we are to have a Market like this near..
Your attitude like" it was better when it was worst.." Or "it was fantastic when only me and my friend new the place", is not going to go in any direction. Just nosense IMO.

Why don't you point your attention on the hundreds of traders who sell genuine food rather than the burgers. Still in my opinion..

Is it not better than Tesco!? Or Waitrose? so come on..

I am coming back right now from Brixton Market and it is the same. But lovely.
Thursday 22 March 2012 10.17pm
Dunno what you are saying/ranting about mate.

Just letting you know you don't speak for all of us when you gush love for Borough Market.
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