Sick of all the push bikers jumping lights on Borough High St
Guy's street Thursday 24 May 2012 5.34pm
dee dee wrote:A good point, but I'd counter it by saying that London's roads are also overcrowded and unreliable!to discourage people from using cars you have to have a transport system that works well and is affordable not overcrowded unreliable and unpleasent.
Jac Thursday 24 May 2012 6.05pm
Ivanhoe wrote:If we encourage more cycling, it will make traffic even slower.
I can not possibly see how that would be the case. Do you have any evidence to back this claim up? Imagine if all those cyclists were in cars waiting at a red light (and being in cars not one of them will have gone through a red light haha) think how much longer it would take to get to that set of traffic lights. Even if several them took the bus instead, buses tend to be slow and stop frequently and are much harder to over take than a cyclist.
I think encouraging cycling can only be good for London perhaps if we get more people cycling, then there would be more responsible cyclists on the road and they could lead by example and eventually not stopping at lights and other hideous crimes of some cyclist would decrease.
Having nearly been taken out on a zebra crossing on Long Lane by a driver who was going far too fast recently(I was almost half way across and had to take a very quick step backwards) If having a near miss with a cyclist is my biggest risk to life when out and about I would be very happy.
TAK Thursday 24 May 2012 6.38pm
I too can't quite see how more bicycles slow down traffic. Every rider would make the very same journey in another way otherwise. A bicycle takes up hardly any space and is fairly easy to overtake.
However, I'm more than happy to be corrected with some proper evidence.
A further issue no-one has commented on I believe is the flock mentality we people tend to have. The more people jump red lights, the more likely even more people jump the red lights. At times I feel real stupid waiting at a traffic light only to be overtaken by a few people I overtook 2 minutes ago. Once I have green I usually have to overtake the same people again and the same thing repeats at the next traffic light until paths divide.
Somehow it seems engrained in the mentality of some people on bicycles in London that one can get away with it. Same applies for cycling without lights. I think this is one of the core problems, amongst other, that needs to be takled for this to change.
However, I'm more than happy to be corrected with some proper evidence.
A further issue no-one has commented on I believe is the flock mentality we people tend to have. The more people jump red lights, the more likely even more people jump the red lights. At times I feel real stupid waiting at a traffic light only to be overtaken by a few people I overtook 2 minutes ago. Once I have green I usually have to overtake the same people again and the same thing repeats at the next traffic light until paths divide.
Somehow it seems engrained in the mentality of some people on bicycles in London that one can get away with it. Same applies for cycling without lights. I think this is one of the core problems, amongst other, that needs to be takled for this to change.
TAK Thursday 24 May 2012 6.44pm
Another interesting study would be to see ratio of people wearing / not wearing helmets blatantly jumping lights at speed. I have no idea whether there could be any parallels or not.
eDWaRD WooDWaRD Thursday 24 May 2012 8.05pm
Guy's street wrote:Come off your high horse. I don't know what you tried to achieve with your comments, but frankly you sum up everything that is wrong with some road users today: it's never you and everyone else is at it as well anyway. And don't you dare insinuate I vilify people: my concerns have always been genuine and it was the obtuse reactions on here that got me to focus on cyclists (which, as the title of the topic reveals was the subject to start with). I guess it's easier to dismiss my opinions in the way you are trying to do and smugly indulge in harmless little conversations, but sorry mate, whatever you wanted to achieve from my point of view you've turned someone who was well disposed towards cyclists to a serious doubter. So, well done.Mr Woodward, of course you are allowed to be genuinely upset about something you perceive as a real problem. I've tried time and again to communicate to you that I agree that there is a problem, but that in my opinion, and, for example, what I observed over a mere 1 mile walk last night, the problem lies among a variety of different people - some of whom cycle, some of whom drive, some of whom walk, and some of whom probably do combinations of all three.
I've not once (to my mind) defended any of the bad apples in any of these groups. I am a pedestrian, a cyclist, a driver, and above all of these a person. A largely sensible one who sees value and importance in all three methods of transport and I don't think anyone deserves to be villified on the basis of what mode of transport they choose - by you or anyone else.
I think some really good points and opinions have been raised in this discussion, but it clearly isn't going anywhere. I'll be bringin my own bike out of hibernation soon, but I'll be taking it out in to the countryside where there aren't traffic lights stopping me every few metres!
Boss St Bloke Thursday 24 May 2012 9.44pm
<<I am guessing that James gets sick of reading these pointless, argumentative and subjective posts to see if someone has broken the T&Cs>>
Ivanhoe Thursday 24 May 2012 11.24pm
Jac - I was putting fwd the idea that if enough people cycled, it might slow traffic to the point that people thought twice about short journeys by car (although I freely accept that I may not have made the point at all clearly - sorry)
...if you press it, they will come.
james127 Thursday 24 May 2012 11.59pm
Very true -- it's silly for car owners to complain about cyclists. It's pure gravy for them -- if every cyclist in London was driving a car, the gridlock would be horrific (yes, even worse) and motorists would be spending even more money on petrol whilst stuck in said gridlock.
urbanite Friday 25 May 2012 7.39am
Jac wrote:Ivanhoe wrote:If we encourage more cycling, it will make traffic even slower.
I can not possibly see how that would be the case. Do you have any evidence to back this claim up? Imagine if all those cyclists were in cars waiting at a red light (and being in cars not one of them will have gone through a red light haha) think how much longer it would take to get to that set of traffic lights. Even if several them took the bus instead, buses tend to be slow and stop frequently and are much harder to over take than a cyclist.
I think encouraging cycling can only be good for London perhaps if we get more people cycling, then there would be more responsible cyclists on the road and they could lead by example and eventually not stopping at lights and other hideous crimes of some cyclist would decrease.
Having nearly been taken out on a zebra crossing on Long Lane by a driver who was going far too fast recently(I was almost half way across and had to take a very quick step backwards) If having a near miss with a cyclist is my biggest risk to life when out and about I would be very happy.
On the days I get a bus to work accross London Bridge it crawls accross because of the cyclists in the bus lane and its inability to pull into the kerb to stop at the bus stop
Guy's street Friday 25 May 2012 10.18am
eDWaRD WooDWaRD wrote:Show me where I've dismised you opinons.Guy's street wrote:Come off your high horse. I don't know what you tried to achieve with your comments, but frankly you sum up everything that is wrong with some road users today: it's never you and everyone else is at it as well anyway. And don't you dare insinuate I vilify people: my concerns have always been genuine and it was the obtuse reactions on here that got me to focus on cyclists (which, as the title of the topic reveals was the subject to start with). I guess it's easier to dismiss my opinions in the way you are trying to do and smugly indulge in harmless little conversations, but sorry mate, whatever you wanted to achieve from my point of view you've turned someone who was well disposed towards cyclists to a serious doubter. So, well done.Mr Woodward, of course you are allowed to be genuinely upset about something you perceive as a real problem. I've tried time and again to communicate to you that I agree that there is a problem, but that in my opinion, and, for example, what I observed over a mere 1 mile walk last night, the problem lies among a variety of different people - some of whom cycle, some of whom drive, some of whom walk, and some of whom probably do combinations of all three.
I've not once (to my mind) defended any of the bad apples in any of these groups. I am a pedestrian, a cyclist, a driver, and above all of these a person. A largely sensible one who sees value and importance in all three methods of transport and I don't think anyone deserves to be villified on the basis of what mode of transport they choose - by you or anyone else.
I think some really good points and opinions have been raised in this discussion, but it clearly isn't going anywhere. I'll be bringin my own bike out of hibernation soon, but I'll be taking it out in to the countryside where there aren't traffic lights stopping me every few metres!
Show me where I've claimed 'it's never me and everyone else is at it as well'.
You've got the hump with me, I'm not sure why, but you have. I've tried to engage in a constructive discussion, have tried to answer all your points, and those of others, but for some reason you don't want to engage with me. Fair enough.
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