Sick of all the push bikers jumping lights on Borough High St

@ Guy's street
I think you're being a bit disingenuous here. I'll admit that I regularly see cars not slowing down at an amber light and trying to make it across the line before it goes to red. I much more rarely see cars truly jumping a red light (although, i'll admit, some do it). However, I regularly see cyclists not observing a red light, i.e. they should stop because, for example, pedestrians are crossing (or are about to cross) the road in front of them but instead they plough straight through, hoping they'll whizz past before someone steps off the kerb, or they can swerve around people in mid-cross. It's extremely reckless and it isn't on. In many ways, it's actually more dangerous from a pedestrian's perspective than a car not stopping, because most people can readily see and readily hear X tonnes of metal approaching, whereas bikes are pretty much 'silent assassins'.

McQueen wrote:

...bikes are pretty much 'silent assassins'.

Oh for God's sake, this has really taken the anti-cyclist vitriol to a completely ridiculous new plane. Get a grip.

I have just walked home from the gym on Gt Suffolk Street. I thought I'd use it as an opportunity to sample some behaviour from various road users on a variety of road types. It is about a mile, nothing scientific, but this is what I saw - nothing disingenuous here, just what I saw.

Union St from Gt Suffolk St to Gt Guildford St - nothing of note. Barely any traffic.

Southwark Bridge Rd/Union St crossroads - as I approached, the lights were green on SBR. After a few seconds they went amber. Traffic heading south all slowed to a stop. One car stopped in the bike box, alongside a bike. Heading north, a black cab with more than enough time to stop (longer stopping distance than the southbound traffic) didn't even attempt to slow down and went straight through what ended up being a red light.

Union St toward Borough High St - group of 4 girls walking down the cycle lane. Got out of the way when they saw a bike coming from BHS direction. One stepped in the road, the other two on to the pavement. Man on Boris Bike, heading the wrong way down the same cycle lane, came on to the pavement to avoid a group of 4 men standing in the cycle lane.

Union St/BHS crossroads - 1 car and 2 motorcycles in the bike box of the northbound lane, all in a line across the box so I find it hard to imagine they all 'just missed the light', unless they were overtaking each other on a single carriageway. Heading southbound, 1 cyclist in the bike box, and another 2 that initially stopped at the lights, but then set off during the pedestrian phase of the lights. 1 scooter in the bike box coming out of Newcomen St.

Newcomen St - 2 cars and 1 bike turning right in to Newcomen St without indicating.

No incident from there to my front door.

So as you can see, my rather nerdy walk home shows that there are rule breakers all round. None of them looked like they were dangerous except the taxi that jumped the red light - if the phasing had been a little faster a pedestrian could have been out in the road by that point, but pretty unlikely. What I did also see was that dozens of people on foot, on bike, and in car were behaving perfectly safely and reasonably.

Sandgrown Dave wrote:

McQueen wrote:

...bikes are pretty much 'silent assassins'.

Oh for God's sake, this has really taken the anti-cyclist vitriol to a completely ridiculous new plane. Get a grip.

Apart from the "silent assassin" bit I think McQueen is pretty much spot on.

Yes hat sounds qute typical Guy's street.

I've just remembered that another popular junction for cars running the red light is the Grange Road/Tower Bridge Road/Bermondsey Street junction, especially northbound.

I remember being in a car in Chiswick several years ago and I noticed that not a single car was doing it. I commented on it and the driver and his partner both both said 'Oh you get done for it round here'. We all agreed how unusual that was. I don't really know what Chiswick's secret was but it shows it can be done.

Guy's street wrote:

I have just walked home from the gym on Gt Suffolk Street. I thought I'd use it as an opportunity to sample some behaviour from various road users on a variety of road types. It is about a mile, nothing scientific, but this is what I saw - nothing disingenuous here, just what I saw.
Union St from Gt Suffolk St to Gt Guildford St - nothing of note. Barely any traffic.

Southwark Bridge Rd/Union St crossroads - as I approached, the lights were green on SBR. After a few seconds they went amber. Traffic heading south all slowed to a stop. One car stopped in the bike box, alongside a bike. Heading north, a black cab with more than enough time to stop (longer stopping distance than the southbound traffic) didn't even attempt to slow down and went straight through what ended up being a red light.

Union St toward Borough High St - group of 4 girls walking down the cycle lane. Got out of the way when they saw a bike coming from BHS direction. One stepped in the road, the other two on to the pavement. Man on Boris Bike, heading the wrong way down the same cycle lane, came on to the pavement to avoid a group of 4 men standing in the cycle lane.

Union St/BHS crossroads - 1 car and 2 motorcycles in the bike box of the northbound lane, all in a line across the box so I find it hard to imagine they all 'just missed the light', unless they were overtaking each other on a single carriageway. Heading southbound, 1 cyclist in the bike box, and another 2 that initially stopped at the lights, but then set off during the pedestrian phase of the lights. 1 scooter in the bike box coming out of Newcomen St.

Newcomen St - 2 cars and 1 bike turning right in to Newcomen St without indicating.

No incident from there to my front door.

So as you can see, my rather nerdy walk home shows that there are rule breakers all round. None of them looked like they were dangerous except the taxi that jumped the red light - if the phasing had been a little faster a pedestrian could have been out in the road by that point, but pretty unlikely. What I did also see was that dozens of people on foot, on bike, and in car were behaving perfectly safely and reasonably.

Well. you have totally convinced me, so from now on, I'll actually invite cyclists to jump red lights and will applaud them loudly, meanwhile waiting for an opportunity where AND the pedestrian light is green AND there is no cyclist jumping the red light approaching. I might have to leave the house an hour earlier though to still make it to work on time though. Apart from that I am very disappointed that this turned into a conversation where again people refuse to take responsibility and resort to pointing at everybody else (dragging them down to their level) misbehaving in traffic (whether made up or not) rather than offering a solution. The only advice I have seen from cyclists on this topic is either to support a biased LCC or to get a grip. Nothing constructive, no attempt at some self criticism whatsoever. Basically the same attitude that is displayed in traffic. Great stuff.

@Sandgrown Dave
I have a grip, thanks - the reason for the speech marks was because I was being slightly tongue-in-cheek and also because I couldn't think of a better way to express the contrast between the noise a car makes/the space it occupies in your visual field, and a bike doesn't make/occupy. For the record, I'm an ex-cyclist; I stopped because I couldn't see how it was possible to cycle safely in central London.

I know the difference. I've seen directly. Also, when my light is green and cars from the left or right are still starting out over the pedestrian crossing in front them I know their light is red. I was once stood outside Borough Tube Station when I saw 7 cars go through a red light heading north.[/quote]

You’ve hit upon a valid point here. I travel by car through that junction at BHS most weekdays and often find myself midway in the queue with a green turn right arrow light, thinking that reasonably, I have enough time to turn tight. Sometimes I can, sometimes I can’t (depending who jumps the lights, including cyclists, from the opposite way) and have often been left paused on the crossing, not wishing to enter the junction, but allowing the pedestrians to cross when they can, albeit according to the lights, they shouldn't! Perhaps the light phasing on this particularly awkward junction could be addressed so that cars or other abiding road users have a clearer, timed sign-posted progression through it. BTW As a regular cyclist too, I avoid this junction as it’s such a nightmare!

Guy's street wrote:

[ The fact is that everyone should approach traffic lights anticipating that they will have to stop, whether the light is on green or amber. Red is not the signal to start preparing to stop.

After the number of times you've already shown your ignorance of the Highway Code, it doesn't surprise me that you also seem to be ignorant of the meaning of an amber light*.



* in case you want to know, it means: STOP. It doesn't even mean "start preparing to stop", or "hurry up, it will be red soon"