Pedestrian road safety in SE1

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Friday 5 October 2012 2.45pm
Out of respect I didn't want to hijack the other threads,which have been dealing with the subject, so I thought I start a new one.(James, if this goes under chatter, apologies)

The tragic accident of the 5 year old child has highlighted again, that accidents are rife on quite a few junctions around se1.

For a long time I have been wondering what can be done about the junction of Union st and SBR, which seems small enough to feel safe, but is pretty dangerous as I have witnessed on numerous occasions.(pretty much every morning).
Esp lorries go through red lights and the turn from Union st southbound on to SBR is not very well coordinated with the pedestrian crossing. Which has a green phase far too short to cross it safely. Even as an adult I would have to run across to make it during the green phase. My children are both fairly fast walkers and they make it half way.
I have spoken to the police about it,(who were doing a cycle safety demonstration at the junction in summer and agreed that there was a problem) but nothing has changed.
Is there a local organisation, or do you report it to tfl or where would you direct it to?
Other junctions that have been mentioned,are BHS/gt dover st/marshalsea rd and TBR/abbey rd.
Any suggestions are much appreciated.
Friday 5 October 2012 10.57pm
Yes, this is tragic.

One idea is to make ALL roads in the ENTIRE borough 20/mph (yes, this would require support from TFL on the big roads).

The risk of serious injury/death increases dramatically when one goes from 20 to 30 mph.

In the words of the UK campaign, 20's plenty.

(And motorists would still get where they need to go just as quickly -- nobody gets anywhere any faster by speeding up and then having to slam the breaks to sit at a red light for a minute.)
Saturday 6 October 2012 8.30am
At the Living Streets transport hustings before the last GLA/Mayoral elections, the representatives of every party except the Tories were in favour of extensive 20mph zones.

The Conservative spokesman, Dick Tracy, spoke against it since it goes against their policy of 'smoothing traffic flow' (actually, as James127 suggested, it helps flow by reducing the accelerate/brake cycle and reducing accidents).

They actively don't care, either about maimed pedestrians or the 4,000 Londoners a year whose lives are cut short by air pollution (TfL figures).

Unfortunately the outer boroughs have ensured that TfL strategy will be set by supporters of the motorist minority for the next few years.
Saturday 6 October 2012 12.23pm
Try walking across the SBR/Borough Road junction sometime (particularly in peak hours). If you wait for the traffic to turn from one to the other in the expectation that the lights will give you a window where both are red to cross then you are going to be disappointed. If you opt to run (and I mean run) across either you will almost inevitably still come into conflict with motorists. In the case of SBR in peak hours you come into conflict even ruder, more agressive and truly foul mouthed cyclists on SBR's 'super-highway'. One foul mouthed lout attempted to kick me for having the temerity of attempting to cross on one occasion and this is when they were jumping a red light!

This latter group have become a real menace on SBR when it comes to being a pedestrian since attempts to avoid the poorly timed lights by crossing away from actual crossings still put you in conflict with them and their increasingly arrogant behaviour.
Sunday 7 October 2012 7.16pm
Having a 20 mph speed limit across London is rather silly. What about major arterials like the A40 or A13? How could Union St SE1 be compared to the A406 ? Maybe in small narrow residential streets but surely not London-wide ?
Monday 8 October 2012 11.35pm
I'm afraid I don't know the circumstances of the 5 year old child but I do feel strongly as a pedestrian and a driver the the existing laws and regulations should be advertised and enforced.

I agree as a pedestrian many crossing in this borough are dangerous and unfit for purpose.

However, when I was kid we had the Green Cross code advertised and enforced. If you rode a bike on the pavement and hurt someone you got fined (allegedly).

Germany has the lowest rate of pedestrian deaths in the EU, and the Autobahn, because they have laws about crossing the roads and road safety as well as cars and they enforce them all on everyone: pedestrians, cyclists and drivers.
Not just drivers like the UK while pedestrians and cyclists can behave as badly as they like with no responsibility for the consequences.
Proper education and responsibility ALL ROUND.
They also, in all fairness have more space to build proper crossings and roads for all. But other EU cities with much less space than us still do much better by all parties: drivers, pedestrians and cyclists - such as Amsterdam.

I've seen some insane drivers do dumb things in London most days I drive, but they have number plates and you can report them. No one does anything about the insane pedestrians that lung out into the road without looking with their headphones on or insane cyclists that behave like maniacs on and off the pavements.

London has majorly bad road, pavement and cycle lane design. It's really badly haphazardly done by bits and pieces and not thought out as a whole at all. That's why it's so bad and so dangerous.

I don't know why this 5 year old child was killed by a car but 5 is too young to be on the street unsupervised, don't shoot me for asking but where were the responsible adults?
Tuesday 9 October 2012 12.16am
Hi @boroughpaul, I agree with you, and sorry for not being more clear.

A limit of 20/mph would, in my ideal world, apply throughout ALL of Inner London (so, the entire congestion charging area as well as surrounding inner London neighborhoods (e.g. Kensington and Chelsea, the old congestion charging zone, Camden, inner East London, the majority of South London in from the Thames by at least five miles so, for example, all of Clapham) and in the more densely-populated areas of outer London.

So, yes, this would probably mean ALL of Southwark would be at 20/mph. But, for example, roads into/out of Heathrow, Gatwick, etc. would still clearly have speed limits in excess of 20/mph.

In Southwark, most drivers would not see a difference at all -- instead of waiting at traffic lights or zebra crossings drivers would simply move a bit more slowly along the roads before arriving at their final destination in approximately the same time as one would at a higher posted speed limit.
Tuesday 9 October 2012 7.20am
Bring back the Green Cross Code - Stop, Look, Listen...

If everyone followed that, then people would be a lot safer crossing roads.... It's all about education...
Tuesday 9 October 2012 9.52am
james127 wrote:
A limit of 20/mph would, in my ideal world, apply throughout ALL of Inner London .......In Southwark, most drivers would not see a difference at all... arriving at their final destination in approximately the same time as one would at a higher posted speed limit.

So, a lower speed limit wouldn't affect traffic speed.

Why would one want a lower speed limit, then?

...if you press it, they will come.
Tuesday 9 October 2012 10.07am
cousinbillybob wrote:
Bring back the Green Cross Code - Stop, Look, Listen...
If everyone followed that, then people would be a lot safer crossing roads.... It's all about education...
If only. My children know exactly how to cross the road. If only other road users respected the rules as well... That's the whole problem.
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