Workfare v Welfare

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Thursday 21 March 2013 11.40pm
So Simon Hughes says workfare doesn't work
my opinion is that welfare does't work
SE1 has a great divide in haves and have nots
speaking to other business owners its very eye opening
when we offer employment, it is very hard to find local staff.
I admit that we don't offer glamour type jobs but bar staff, chefs, cleaners are good jobs that should help someone to say " I am working for my living"
I don't know about you but I'll take any job before I take welfare
What would Simon Hughes do when he is unemployed?

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Friday 22 March 2013 6.27am
in a couple of years we will find out...but he will probably end up doing time in the house of lords
Friday 22 March 2013 9.10am
My young grand-daughter gets up at 5.30 in the morning to do one hours work, then goes back for another 2 and a half hours...she is a cleaner in a nursery..and has a 3 month old baby..it takes 40 minutes either way to work.She went out this morning in a foot of snow, when other people comment about its not worth it, her response is I want to work for my daughter and me...any work has dignity, no matter how other people view it, I agree with Bigphil..x
Friday 22 March 2013 9.32am
Reading James' article I dont get the impression that Simon Hughes is necessarily against workfare (and certainly not against taking a job before taking welfare) ... he just seems to be pointing out problems with the way the current system works in the hope of improving it.
Friday 22 March 2013 10.39am
I hate the idea of "workfare" but believe in the welfare state. I have benefitted from it in the past when I was unemployed and I am still grateful that it was there to help me when I needed it. Earning a good wage was always better than dole money and that is the key to it all, good pay.
Pay was something bigphil chose to omit in his posting, if he offers local unemployed people 10-15 per hour I am sure he will be swamped by them seeking the positions, if he offers really good conditions such as average earnings holiday pay, private medical insurance, sick pay etc. the swamping will turn into a deluge.
Fortunately I am out of the ratrace. I spent many years working for my money and now my money works for me and although I am no longer a worker I do take the workers' side but not the shirkers or benefit ponces
Friday 22 March 2013 10.45am
I hate the idea of "workfare" but believe in the welfare state. I have benefitted from it in the past when I was unemployed and I am still grateful that it was there to help me when I needed it. Earning a good wage was always better than dole money and that is the key to it all, good pay.
Pay was something bigphil chose to omit in his posting, if he offers local unemployed people 10-15 per hour I am sure he will be swamped by them seeking the positions, if he offers really good conditions such as average earnings holiday pay, private medical insurance, sick pay etc. the swamping will turn into a deluge.
Fortunately I am out of the rat race. I spent many years working for my money and now my money works for me and although I am no longer a worker I do tend to take the workers' side but abhor the shirkers and benefit ponces and believe everything should be done to root them out.
Friday 22 March 2013 11.26am
It's called civilisation.

Think about the countrys that don't have such safeguards and ask yourself if you would like to live there and why you aren't.
Friday 22 March 2013 3.33pm
bigphil wrote:
SE1 has a great divide in haves and have nots
speaking to other business owners its very eye opening
when we offer employment, it is very hard to find local staff.
I admit that we don't offer glamour type jobs but bar staff, chefs, cleaners are good jobs that should help someone to say " I am working for my living"
I don't know about you but I'll take any job before I take welfare

well, lets go back to when the docks were up and running.

we locals will all be flexible having work only when the gangmasters want us to unload cargo, we'll all live in slums and have a life expectancy of , say, 45 years etc.

if local businesses offered decent wages so we can pay the 250 per week rent etc perhaps you might get staff. otherwise, we have no option but to starve on 70 per week.

why the bankers on the opposite side of the river need to be 'incentivised' with huge bonuses to gamble our money or else the poor dears will leave whilst on our side we have to starve on the minimum wage or work as slave labour for the pittance of benefit is beyond me ...
Saturday 23 March 2013 8.55am
bigphil wrote:
So Simon Hughes says workfare doesn't work,,,

Well, it depends what you mean by 'workfare'. I take it you mean making people do work, often in commercial enterprises, in order to 'earn' the benefits they may have been paying NI for years for.

In a situation where there aren't enough jobs to go round (ie now), workfare only works for employers and owners of capital.

They can get work done for virtually no money, rather than having to pay for it, increasing the profit and, hence potential dividends.

The availability of free labour undermines other workers' ability to negotiate better conditions. In addition to the direct downward pressure on pay, it discourages people from pressing for better hours or improved health and safety - "If you don't like it, there's someone over there who will do the job for no pay".

The media's blaming of benefit 'scroungers' is a way of distracting us from the real scroungers - the businesses that rely on benefits to top up poverty pay and the landlords who benefit from the shortage of social housing to extort various forms of 'rent' (in its wider, technical sense) from us for the privilege of living here.
Sunday 24 March 2013 12.05pm
What about those on welfare who have never paid NI ? " Workfare" seems to be unpopular with people who defend the welfare state at all costs and popular with those who actually work, pay tax and NI resenting the " something for nothing" culture invented by Beveridge. Successive labor govts in the 60s and 70s entrenched this system as a means of creating clients who would turn up election after election and vote to maintain the system. Short term help while looking for a job is one thing but permanent benefits paid to the unemployable have to be earned somehow.
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