Clean Air

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Monday 23 October 2017 9.03am
Hoping the start of the t-charge today will reduce the traffic around SE1 but that may be my wishful thinking! Maybe the cars inside the congestion zone should also have their discount reduced to produce the necessary "encouragement"
Monday 23 October 2017 11.41am
StevenW wrote:
Maybe the cars inside the congestion zone should also have their discount reduced to produce the necessary "encouragement"

It won't be all those living within the zone "encouraged"; it will be those who run older cars. Those with newer, more expensive, cars will escape, as ever, scot-free.
Monday 23 October 2017 1.06pm
There's a long rambling but interesting piece on the BBC website related to this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/how_toxic_is_your_car_exhaust

The interesting bit is the suggestion that new cars can meet stricter Euro standards but actually put out more NOx than their older counterparts. So the direct result may be worse pollution.

I do think something needs to be done though. The number of people driving their kids to school in zone 1, where we have easily the best public transport infrastructure in the country, drives me bananas.
Monday 23 October 2017 1.51pm
The trouble is a zone 1 single fare is around £2.40 or £4.80 return, however if as Gavin said you have a newer car within the zone you are only paying just over £1 to use the car for the day. Seems the economics are stacked in favour of using the car if you own one. That's before you take into account the tube crush, loss of personal space and all the other things which make people want to drive.
Zoe
Monday 23 October 2017 7.44pm
Car ownership in SE1 is very small, the people driving around are highly unlikely to be people who actually live here. We're suffering the pollution of others driving here, not the driving we do.
Monday 23 October 2017 11.18pm
Stevenw wrote:
The trouble is a zone 1 single fare is around £2.40 or £4.80 return, however if as Gavin said you have a newer car within the zone you are only paying just over £1 to use the car for the day. Seems the economics are stacked in favour of using the car if you own one. That's before you take into account the tube crush, loss of personal space and all the other things which make people want to drive.

You forgot to mention the cost of parking: this can be exorbitant, depending where in Zone 1 one wishes to leave their car.
Tuesday 24 October 2017 10.36am
Stevenw wrote:
The trouble is a zone 1 single fare is around £2.40 or £4.80 return, however if as Gavin said you have a newer car within the zone you are only paying just over £1 to use the car for the day. Seems the economics are stacked in favour of using the car if you own one. That's before you take into account the tube crush, loss of personal space and all the other things which make people want to drive.

This is a good point - if you've gone to the trouble of insuring a car and paying for a parking permit, AND registering for the residents' C-charge discount, you'd be a fool not to drive whenever it's convenient.

Zoe you're right that the cars-per-person ratio must be the lowest in the country but there are still a lot of cars owned in the area. And in the parts of SE11 where you get 90% discount.

Anyway, I can't remember what my point was but i'll be intrigued to see if this has any effect on traffic volume. The ultra-low emission zone comes into force in 18 months as well. I might sell the car and buy a horse.
Tuesday 24 October 2017 10.45am
Please no - that will cause a whole different set of problems. (Although I suppose just the one horse wouldn't be so bad!!) See below:

The Great Horse Manure Crisis of 1894 (by Ben Johnson)

"By the late 1800s, large cities all around the world were “drowning in horse manure”. In order for these cities to function, they were dependent on thousands of horses for the transport of both people and goods.

In 1900, there were over 11,000 hansom cabs on the streets of London alone. There were also several thousand horse-drawn buses, each needing 12 horses per day, making a staggering total of over 50,000 horses transporting people around the city each day.

This huge number of horses created major problems. The main concern was the large amount of manure left behind on the streets. On average a horse will produce between 15 and 35 pounds of manure per day, so you can imagine the sheer scale of the problem. The manure on London’s streets also attracted huge numbers of flies which then spread typhoid fever and other diseases"
Tuesday 24 October 2017 11.13am
suziq wrote:
Please no - that will cause a whole different set of problems. (Although I suppose just the one horse wouldn't be so bad!!) See below:

The Great Horse Manure Crisis of 1894 (by Ben Johnson)

"By the late 1800s, large cities all around the world were “drowning in horse manure”. In order for these cities to function, they were dependent on thousands of horses for the transport of both people and goods.

In 1900, there were over 11,000 hansom cabs on the streets of London alone. There were also several thousand horse-drawn buses, each needing 12 horses per day, making a staggering total of over 50,000 horses transporting people around the city each day.

This huge number of horses created major problems. The main concern was the large amount of manure left behind on the streets. On average a horse will produce between 15 and 35 pounds of manure per day, so you can imagine the sheer scale of the problem. The manure on London’s streets also attracted huge numbers of flies which then spread typhoid fever and other diseases"

Yea, but........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hBWBVVFA4c
Thursday 26 October 2017 8.43am
Diesel engines have ruined this country thanks to Gordon Brown.
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