Another cyclist thread

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Wednesday 29 November 2017 8.37am
Jerry wrote:
I don't think anyone expects a cyclist to be "averaging" 20 mph. As a motorist I'm lucky to be averaging 8 mph so the talk of average speeds is irrelevant for most safety issues...

I don't think we were talking 'averages'. 20 mph was a fast speed achieved by a fit cyclist on open roads. I suggest cruising speed for a London cyclist is 10 to 15 mph. 'Average' on the other hand - well, TfL quotes the following average speeds for cycling on its 'Plan a journey' website:

'Easy route' 12 kmph (= 7.5 mph)
'Moderate route' 16 kmph (= 10 mph)
'Fast route' 20 kmph (= 12.5 mph)

(Why they should think cyclists work in kilometres I don't know.)

But these are presumably averages of averages, since they seem to make no allowance for time of day or traffic conditions. Or perhaps they're only achievable when there's only light traffic and no holdups? Are there any regular cyclists who've used TfL's recommended routes who can comment on whether the timings TfL quotes make sense?
Wednesday 29 November 2017 9.08am
A speed gun on Rothsay Street would reveal many cyclists - some of whom are, yes, on racing bikes, but some not - exceeding 20 mph.
Wednesday 29 November 2017 10.59am
Zoe wrote:
I resist hi-vis because the evidence does not support its use. It doesn't make cyclists safer as it creates the suggestion that cycling is a dangerous actively requiring special clothes, which puts people off cycling and makes it less safe to cycle for everyone else. No one has hi-vis in holland and they are safer as they have better designed roads and lots of cyclists. ...

I recall reading a report of some experiments a few years ago, which came up with some rules for cycling safely - of which one was, as you suggest Zoe, DON'T wear hi-vis clothing.

I think the full list of advice was something like:

1: DON'T wear a helmet
2: DON'T wear a hi-vis jacket, or any other 'special' clothing
3: but instead DO wear entirely unsuitable clothing
4: ride an old-fashioned sit-up-and-beg bicycle (a Dutch 'granny-bike' is ideal)
5: wobble a bit
6: not essential, but donning a long blonde wig helped

This had an amazing calming effect on other traffic. Motorists slowed down, and when overtaking, measurement showed they allowed the cyclist at least twice the space they would normally.

There's a nice picture of Queen Juliana of the Netherlands riding a granny-bike in 1967.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roadster_(bicycle)#/media/File:SFA001014996.jpg

Note the hat and the pearls. When middle-aged ladies feel they can dress up like that to ride a bike in London then it will prove that cycling really is safe here once more!
Wednesday 29 November 2017 12.14pm
I bet there's similar reports on how not to have your house burgled....

1. Leave front door open at all times
2. Have dirty looking curtains
3. Be old and wobbly
4 Constantly boil cabbage

Sorry, but I'm just finding this funny now.
Wednesday 29 November 2017 2.26pm
John C wrote:
There's a nice picture of Queen Juliana of the Netherlands riding a granny-bike in 1967.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roadster_(bicycle)#/media/File:SFA001014996.jpg

Note the hat and the pearls. When middle-aged ladies feel they can dress up like that to ride a bike in London then it will prove that cycling really is safe here once more!

She's cycling in the countryside though in that picture.
Wednesday 29 November 2017 2.38pm
Gavin Smith wrote:
A speed gun on Rothsay Street would reveal many cyclists - some of whom are, yes, on racing bikes, but some not - exceeding 20 mph.

A speed gun on Long Lane would reveal many drivers - none of whom are in racing cars, exceeding 20mph (probably double that in many cases).

I find it quite hard to believe that many cyclists, regardless of type of bicycle, are achieving 20mph on Rothsay St. It's not a particularly long stretch of road so I'd think it would be hard to build up the speed. Which direction are you talking about?
Wednesday 29 November 2017 2.54pm
boroughonian wrote:
I bet there's similar reports on how not to have your house burgled....
1. Leave front door open at all times
2. Have dirty looking curtains
3. Be old and wobbly
4 Constantly boil cabbage

Sorry, but I'm just finding this funny now.

Hahaha! That's about the size of it. Any and all regulations for cyclists are wrong, because that might infer that cyclists bear some sort of responsibility, which as we now know is incorrect. The entirety of the onus must be placed on motorists, who should consider installing x-ray detectors, night vision and cushioned bumpers for the cyclists wearing all back and no helmet, which is now their right of course.
Wednesday 29 November 2017 3.00pm
LiviaDrusilla wrote:
boroughonian wrote:
I bet there's similar reports on how not to have your house burgled....
1. Leave front door open at all times
2. Have dirty looking curtains
3. Be old and wobbly
4 Constantly boil cabbage

Sorry, but I'm just finding this funny now.

Hahaha! That's about the size of it. Any and all regulations for cyclists are wrong, because that might infer that cyclists bear some sort of responsibility, which as we now know is incorrect. The entirety of the onus must be placed on motorists, who should consider installing x-ray detectors, night vision and cushioned bumpers for the cyclists wearing all back and no helmet, which is now their right of course.

Who said all regulation was wrong or that cyclists don't have some responsibility for their own safety?

It's no more a cyclists 'right' to wear black and no helmet than it is anyone else's! You are suggesting cyclists have their 'right' to wear what they feel appropriate removed because some people have created the idea that hi-vis and a helmet makes some kind of palpable difference to road safety.

If we want to improve road safety, reduce fatalities etc, then why not just ban cars? Problem solved. No road traffic accidents.
Wednesday 29 November 2017 3.45pm
Guy's Street wrote:
I find it quite hard to believe that many cyclists, regardless of type of bicycle, are achieving 20mph on Rothsay St. It's not a particularly long stretch of road so I'd think it would be hard to build up the speed. Which direction are you talking about?

Going down towards TBR. If you find it so hard to believe, perhaps you should go and carry out a site recce for yourself and position yourself about halfway down said road.
Wednesday 29 November 2017 3.55pm
Getting back to building sites and other workplaces, we were all against being forced to wear PPE, it is widely believed that they (the companies) are covering their own behinds. Although I think it is accepted that it makes people safer. They are covering their behinds for a reason and there will have been many reports and surveys carried out. Accident rates have plummeted since it was introduced.

Believe it or not, many people, myself included, wear cycling head lamps.
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