Congestion Charge increase

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Monday 13 June 2005 12.19pm
I live within the Congestion Zone (in SE1) and am registered as a resident! The fee is being increased wef 4th July to 8 perday! Yesterday I received a letter from them, laying out the new charges. When the increase was announced on TV it was stated that if you were to purchase either on a monthly or annual a further discount would be applied. Yes for Non Residents not for Residents. I pay monthly, NR will get 3 Free days - non residents will get nothing - PLEASE COULD YOU INVESTIGATE! No one at CCL wants to know! Why should we penalised yet again!
Monday 13 June 2005 12.59pm
yee ha! I personally can't wait for the 8 per day congestion charge. Think of the word "penalised" again, Barbara.

Why should those of us who take buses be penalised by selfish oafs who drive a car in the centre of an already heavily congested city?

Why should cyclists be penalised by breathing the exhaust fumes of selfish oafs who drive a car in the centre of an already heavily congested city?

Why should my child be exposed to pollutants caused by selfish oafs who ...etc...etc..

The moment when people stop and think of the consequences each time they turn on the ignition in their cars, will be a moment of enlightenment. Until then, the only way to reduce the number of cars on the roads is to charge them for the priviledge.
Monday 13 June 2005 1.10pm
Er...I live in the zone,take the car out irregularly - hardly ever in fact - I guess I am a selfish oaf/bastard/ whatever because I even HAVE a car...and I pay my annual congestion charge even if I hardly ever drive during the day, so I'm sure TFL gets a good deal from me.
Monday 13 June 2005 4.04pm
Remember, this is the man who rides his bicycle on the pavement & is proud of it.

Cars are already charged for the privilege. Road Fund Licence, Petrol duty. What about people who need to use a car?

& why should taxi drivers be exempt? The best way of eliminating congesstion would be to abolish taxis. Ah. Because the great & the good use taxis, so they must be OK.

Anyway, proposition, not opposition:

for 750 to 1000 you can have your car converted to LPG, and you can then drive around central London for free. And your petrol bills will be lower.
Monday 13 June 2005 4.44pm
Boy oh boy, some people have long (and bitter) memories. I shan't rise to the bait vis cycling on the pavement, but I will point out that, prior to the congestion charge being introduced, catching a bus to get from SE1 to EC1 involved stocking up on supplies of books to read for the long journey, stuck in traffic.

We can delude ourselves that our own car journeys are essential. They aren't. We can kid ourselves that Road Fund Licence and Petrol Duty pay our contribution to the environmental costs. They don't. The fact of the matter is that until we wean ourselves off our dependency on lugging one ton of metal around with us just to go to the shops, the problems of congestion and pollution are not going to improve.

Good luck to you if you wish to convert your car to LPG. At least the congestion charge will have achieved something in spurring you on to do something, even if the primary motive is to save money.

I visited Delhi recently, where all the taxis have recently been forced to convert to LPG. The difference in the air is amazing (you can actually see beyond your nose now...).
Monday 13 June 2005 5.10pm
It is extremely unclear whether converting a car to LPG is environmentally friendly. The environmental cost of the conversion itself is likely to outweigh the small environmental benefit of burning LPG instead of petrol.

The CC exemption for LPG is a result of politicians' headline grabbing without a thought for the wider actions. Why should a 3.5litre 1980s V8 Range Rover that does about 12 miles to the gallon be exempt from the CC just because it is running on LPG? Or a 4.5litre Jaguar.

I fear you launched a very bitter attack on OP, yet by your own admission engage in one of the most unpleasant anti-social activities known to Londoners - cycling on pavements. Perhaps I missed it, but I do not recall any support for your position of cycling on the pavements. You wrote yourself 'Unfortunately, irresponsible cyclists do give the rest of us a bad name.' [18 May 2004 10.55am] & then you launch a truly unpleasant diatribe against poor Barbara. Never mind.
Monday 13 June 2005 5.15pm
Please take the cycling on pavements discussion to another thread, or preferably drop it completely (as you have been asked to before).

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Edited 1 times. Last edit at 13 June 2005 5.45pm by James Hatts.
Monday 13 June 2005 5.33pm
I can't say I have too much sympathy with SE1ers arguing that they should get a discount for paying for their c-charge monthly. They already get a hefty residents discount. I don't think you can claim you are being discriminated against because you only receive one large discount instead of a large one and a smaller one.

What I did not like too much was when TfL included large "buffer" zones all around the perimeter of the proposed western extension of the c-zone where people outside the zone could claim a resident's discount when there is no such "buffer" in SE1. That I think is discriminatory - TfL turned down any "buffer" zone for SE1 (but the lobby here was not as voiciferous as that near the western extension).

Do as Mapmaker says though - go LPG .. I am pretty sure the environmental benefits are worth it (it does not produce any less CO2 and so wont tackle climate change at all but it gets rid of the nastier pollutants that cars pump out).
Monday 13 June 2005 9.22pm
The Government's own website http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_roads/documents/page/dft_roads_506883-05.hcsp states just how minimal the reduction in pollutants for running LPG are.

"Relative to petrol vehicles, the best LPG vehicles can offer some reductions in emissions of oxides of nitrogen (NOx). However, any benefit will be quite small compared to the latest ultra-clean Euro IV petrol vehicles that are now available from many manufacturers. LPG also offers reductions in carbon dioxide of typically 10-15% compared to equivalent petrol vehicles."

Yet dear old Ken, in his Ivory Tower, offers extraordinary reductions on the CC for using LPG. Probably because he has never run a car.

This is political gesture, devoid of scientific rationale. Despicable. Yet poor Barbara receives a tirade of abuse for wishing to use a car.

By the way, anybody intending to run a google on LPG would be well advised to avoid websites run by the pressure groups go-lpg.co.uk or lpg-vehicles.co.uk or greenfuel.co.uk or dualfuelsystems.co.uk


Oh, and finally you don't have to use LPG to get your discount, you merely have to have a certificate that claims that your car has been converted. I know a man...

My next car will be a real gas guzzler.
Tuesday 14 June 2005 9.13am
Just a quick comment about no one's car journey being essential - not necessarily true. My husband is a musician, he works 2 or 3 nights a week and the gigs could be anywhere - Scotland, Cornwall, Devon, Herefordshire, Wiltshire, Birmingham, Leicester, Newcastle etc etc etc..... Try getting two
20 kg bass cabinets, a bass amp, two bass guitars, a bag of leads, two guitar stands and a bag of stage cloths from Blackfriars Road to anywhere else in the country without a car. There are many other people earning their living in a similar way whose car really is essential, otherwise they can't work. So please don't assume all car ownerst 'just use the car to going shopping'.
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