Simon the Tanner: how not to run a business
Samuel Saturday 1 October 2005 11.26pm
As dee dee says, the planning permission has been refused. If anyone's intrested, it's largely on the grounds that it "would adversely impact on the Bermondsey Street conservation area and the surrounding area". The case number is TP/147-231
Plum Tuesday 4 October 2005 10.45am
Have to say, the one time I had lunch in the Simon Tanner (back in May) the food was no great shakes but have not tried more recently - don't think they have a proper chef though, just some chap who can flip a burger & make tuna mayo. Was just thinking the other day that it's probably time to put a thread up in "Socials" about Christmas dinner if we want to book somewhere decent ... so I will!
Elim Sunday 27 November 2005 11.58am
I read phillipevans' post regarding the way Simon The Tanner is run.
I understand his point about barrels of beer going to waste if they are not drunk, but I don't agree with the point he makes about the seating/decor.
You don't have to be a publican to know that you don't open an uncomfortable establishment and then expect customers to roll in and spend their money in the hope that after a while the place will be done up and be worth spending time it. It just doesn't work like that. You have to make a little bit of an investment before you can expect people to come in. To say that you will only make the place less unhospitable if people come and drink there first is frankly a bit daft and I can see how it will fuel speculation that the place is being run into the ground deliberately.
The obvious answer is to open regular hours, go and buy some comfy second hand sofas, put some nice big candles around the place, put some interesting stuff up on the wall - old movie posters, cheap prints, whatever - and make the place inviting. Then you will see some custom. You don't have to spend a lot of money to make a place comfortable. In fact I personally prefer a place with a bit of character (even if this means the odd bit of rumpty mis-matched furniture) to expensive pub-company clone style decor.
I understand his point about barrels of beer going to waste if they are not drunk, but I don't agree with the point he makes about the seating/decor.
You don't have to be a publican to know that you don't open an uncomfortable establishment and then expect customers to roll in and spend their money in the hope that after a while the place will be done up and be worth spending time it. It just doesn't work like that. You have to make a little bit of an investment before you can expect people to come in. To say that you will only make the place less unhospitable if people come and drink there first is frankly a bit daft and I can see how it will fuel speculation that the place is being run into the ground deliberately.
The obvious answer is to open regular hours, go and buy some comfy second hand sofas, put some nice big candles around the place, put some interesting stuff up on the wall - old movie posters, cheap prints, whatever - and make the place inviting. Then you will see some custom. You don't have to spend a lot of money to make a place comfortable. In fact I personally prefer a place with a bit of character (even if this means the odd bit of rumpty mis-matched furniture) to expensive pub-company clone style decor.
barkyhead Sunday 27 November 2005 12.14pm
You posted that message next month!
- So did I?
Edited 1 times. Last edit at 27 November 2005 12.15pm by barkyhead.
- So did I?
Edited 1 times. Last edit at 27 November 2005 12.15pm by barkyhead.
Samuel Friday 28 October 2005 12.00am
The place is a characterless dump. It didn't used to be. I'll drink there when it looks inviting.
Janorak Friday 28 October 2005 10.05am
philipevans Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> i have also requested better/comfier seating, but
> this wont happen until some return is coming in.
> open to all suggestions and ideas from all. hope
> to see you all on thurs and join you with a drink
> and chat. ok all, c u soon and lets stop closure
> and have good times and lots of fun. after all
> thats what a local is all about!
This is the most interesting business model I have encountered recently.
A pub that won't sell beer because people haven't been coming in to buy beer?
won't provide adequete seating until sufficient revenue is provided by the lack of beer to pay for it?
Come on now, you don't need an MBA to work this one out!
It seems clear from the thread that there is a huge potential demand for a decent boozer here so why not provide one FIRST and THEN you get revenue.
If you can think of any other business that works the over way around then use that as a model but I suspect that you'll be a long time looking...
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> i have also requested better/comfier seating, but
> this wont happen until some return is coming in.
> open to all suggestions and ideas from all. hope
> to see you all on thurs and join you with a drink
> and chat. ok all, c u soon and lets stop closure
> and have good times and lots of fun. after all
> thats what a local is all about!
This is the most interesting business model I have encountered recently.
A pub that won't sell beer because people haven't been coming in to buy beer?
won't provide adequete seating until sufficient revenue is provided by the lack of beer to pay for it?
Come on now, you don't need an MBA to work this one out!
It seems clear from the thread that there is a huge potential demand for a decent boozer here so why not provide one FIRST and THEN you get revenue.
If you can think of any other business that works the over way around then use that as a model but I suspect that you'll be a long time looking...
Ameliebc Wednesday 2 November 2005 10.47pm
Dear All,
I'm so glad we're not the only people to have noticed that Simon's used to be great and now I don't even want to go in to try it!
We've lived in the area for 4 1/2 years, and on Long Lane for 3, and Simons was a cozy place with really good food - AMAZING chips (whole real chunks of potato) with sweet chilli sauce - and we were in there at least twice week, as well as sending all our friends.
We haven't been in to chat to the owner as we didn't think he'd appreciate being told how to run his business, but as he says he's open to suggestions - here goes!
Philip, please take these comments as constructive criticism, because we want to be able to pop over the road for a drink and some food as much as you want to have a busy pub and make some money! I have worked in the catering/hospitality industry for ten years, and have seen businesses rise and fall, succeed and fail, and the failures have always been down to the owners not reading their customer-base correctly. It actually wouldn't take that much in your case, believe it or not -the most difficult thing will be to find a chef that can cook simple gastro-pub food really well!
I might just add that the ideal we're looking for is not the style of the owners who immediately preceded you - they started the process of stripping down the décor and the standards of the kitchen started slipping, so if you want to know what it was like before, just ask, and we'll be happy to tell you!
1) DIM THE LIGHTS! It's absurdly bright in there, and if it doesn't look inviting from outside, nobody will come close enough to find out what food you're doing or how much your drinks are.
2) Get rid of the TV - hardly anybody that lives around here comes to the pub to watch TV of any description - especially not sports - so why have it? If it is so that whoever is working doesn't get bored, then take it away, and you'll be too busy to get bored!
3) Get rid of the Fruit Machine - it lowers the tone, and the previous Simons - hat was constantly busy - didn't have one.
4) You don't need a board outside advertising cheap beer - if the place looks nice, then people don't care about a few pence difference on their pint. I understand that it's not viable to have barrels of real ale at the moment, but I would think people will manage with bottles and wine/spirits for a short while - and if you get the décor right, you'll soon be busy enough to get some ale in.
5) As someone mentioned earlier, you need some stuff on the walls - it looks so bare, it's just not inviting. Movie posters, black and white architectural blow-ups (London, Paris?)… just pick a theme and go with it - the dimmed lighting and candles will make most things look OK.
6) Is it open anymore? I can't comment on the kitchen as I haven't eaten there, but if you want to make this work, you're going to need a decent chef who can cook the kind of food that people want. I would suggest a simpler version of The Woolpack's style (nice, home-made burgers, chicken sandwiches, a few mains on the specials (bangers and mash, a piece of meat with veg, curry), and maybe a platter of cooked meats and chips. Some sharing bits - breads, olives, feta, chips. The CHIPS are essential - they have to be really good, handmade preferably - the sweet chilli chips that I mentioned before were worthy of an award! The most important thing is that it's good quality, made on the premises and simple but exciting at the same time - proper gastro-pub food. You should go and try eating at the Woolpack, the Hartley, the Leathermarket and the Britannia to see what we mean. (The owners of the Leathermarket used to run Simons - they'll know what I'm talking about. If they still own it, it's in their interests to tell you what you need to know - if they don't, then you're the competition, so I don't know if they'll let you in on the secrets!)
I'm sorry to have gone on, but in the end, it's about atmosphere, so the place has to look right. It's lighting and decent food, and regular opening hours. And hey presto, you have a pub with people in it!
If you can manage to do the above, you should then drop a note/flyer/poster to all the apartments immediately surrounding you (The Printworks, Blue Lion Yard, Tanner's Yard etc) saying that you're back to your old self again, I can almost guarantee that we'll all come and try you out it droves! If we then find that you really have - you'll be much busier most of the time! The sooner the better- with these long dark evenings, we all want somewhere to go on the way home, and once we get there, we can't be bothered to cook so we stay!
All the best!!!!
A
I'm so glad we're not the only people to have noticed that Simon's used to be great and now I don't even want to go in to try it!
We've lived in the area for 4 1/2 years, and on Long Lane for 3, and Simons was a cozy place with really good food - AMAZING chips (whole real chunks of potato) with sweet chilli sauce - and we were in there at least twice week, as well as sending all our friends.
We haven't been in to chat to the owner as we didn't think he'd appreciate being told how to run his business, but as he says he's open to suggestions - here goes!
Philip, please take these comments as constructive criticism, because we want to be able to pop over the road for a drink and some food as much as you want to have a busy pub and make some money! I have worked in the catering/hospitality industry for ten years, and have seen businesses rise and fall, succeed and fail, and the failures have always been down to the owners not reading their customer-base correctly. It actually wouldn't take that much in your case, believe it or not -the most difficult thing will be to find a chef that can cook simple gastro-pub food really well!
I might just add that the ideal we're looking for is not the style of the owners who immediately preceded you - they started the process of stripping down the décor and the standards of the kitchen started slipping, so if you want to know what it was like before, just ask, and we'll be happy to tell you!
1) DIM THE LIGHTS! It's absurdly bright in there, and if it doesn't look inviting from outside, nobody will come close enough to find out what food you're doing or how much your drinks are.
2) Get rid of the TV - hardly anybody that lives around here comes to the pub to watch TV of any description - especially not sports - so why have it? If it is so that whoever is working doesn't get bored, then take it away, and you'll be too busy to get bored!
3) Get rid of the Fruit Machine - it lowers the tone, and the previous Simons - hat was constantly busy - didn't have one.
4) You don't need a board outside advertising cheap beer - if the place looks nice, then people don't care about a few pence difference on their pint. I understand that it's not viable to have barrels of real ale at the moment, but I would think people will manage with bottles and wine/spirits for a short while - and if you get the décor right, you'll soon be busy enough to get some ale in.
5) As someone mentioned earlier, you need some stuff on the walls - it looks so bare, it's just not inviting. Movie posters, black and white architectural blow-ups (London, Paris?)… just pick a theme and go with it - the dimmed lighting and candles will make most things look OK.
6) Is it open anymore? I can't comment on the kitchen as I haven't eaten there, but if you want to make this work, you're going to need a decent chef who can cook the kind of food that people want. I would suggest a simpler version of The Woolpack's style (nice, home-made burgers, chicken sandwiches, a few mains on the specials (bangers and mash, a piece of meat with veg, curry), and maybe a platter of cooked meats and chips. Some sharing bits - breads, olives, feta, chips. The CHIPS are essential - they have to be really good, handmade preferably - the sweet chilli chips that I mentioned before were worthy of an award! The most important thing is that it's good quality, made on the premises and simple but exciting at the same time - proper gastro-pub food. You should go and try eating at the Woolpack, the Hartley, the Leathermarket and the Britannia to see what we mean. (The owners of the Leathermarket used to run Simons - they'll know what I'm talking about. If they still own it, it's in their interests to tell you what you need to know - if they don't, then you're the competition, so I don't know if they'll let you in on the secrets!)
I'm sorry to have gone on, but in the end, it's about atmosphere, so the place has to look right. It's lighting and decent food, and regular opening hours. And hey presto, you have a pub with people in it!
If you can manage to do the above, you should then drop a note/flyer/poster to all the apartments immediately surrounding you (The Printworks, Blue Lion Yard, Tanner's Yard etc) saying that you're back to your old self again, I can almost guarantee that we'll all come and try you out it droves! If we then find that you really have - you'll be much busier most of the time! The sooner the better- with these long dark evenings, we all want somewhere to go on the way home, and once we get there, we can't be bothered to cook so we stay!
All the best!!!!
A
Julie Monday 9 January 2006 3.06pm
Simon is now under new management (from last Friday) - we popped in to rescue parents who's key wasn't as up-to-date as our front door lock ... and it seems like a friendly enough family are now running it ...
No connection etc etc
No connection etc etc
Ivanhoe Monday 9 January 2006 3.15pm
Well. I'm willing to try it for the next book club. (Except I think you'd like the new look Leather Exchange, Julie)
...if you press it, they will come.
Anonymous User Monday 9 January 2006 3.36pm
Really pleased - I always used to like Simon's.
Went in a fab pub on Christmas Day - The Queen Victoria on Southwark Park Road - proper Saaf Landun pub. I was the only woman in there - all the others being left at home to cook the turkey presumably!!
Went in a fab pub on Christmas Day - The Queen Victoria on Southwark Park Road - proper Saaf Landun pub. I was the only woman in there - all the others being left at home to cook the turkey presumably!!
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