"The British Working Class"

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Friday 22 July 2005 12.56am
For those of you who are technically minded, you mind want to get yourself kitted out with a BitTorrent client and download this from www.uknova.com

A great documentary about the maligned white working class, shown on C4 on the 10th July.

It uses Southwark as the backdrop, with places like MCH and the Jam Factory getting a mention, alongside great shots of the Heygate, E&C and lots of other places you'll recognise.
Friday 22 July 2005 2.53am
Saw the program, it was great. Uknova won't let me join though. "This site is not available for public use"
Friday 22 July 2005 6.09am
Saw the program, didn't think it was great (I thought it a bit muddled). It did look very good though.
Can anyone tell me if it's possible for researchers to come up with something other than Brian Eno's An Ending (Ascent) to put on their soundtracks? Much as I love this piece of music, it's become such a cliche.
Friday 22 July 2005 10.03am
I too tried to sign on, but got "sorry,not available..." What is your claim tofame Paulh that YOUcan get in?
Friday 22 July 2005 1.31pm
I missed it. Was wondering whether it would add any flesh to Collins' book "The Likes of Us - a biography of the white working class" which IMO was fascinating about recent Bermondsey history, but pretty thin as sociology.

Did they also include any footage from early 1960s documentaries filmed in the area?

Apparently, he is a friend of Julie Burchill

On the other hand - see this scathing review of the programme from the Glasgow Herald

Saturday 23 July 2005 5.38pm
I couldn't get in to UKNova originally, then a friend registered an account for me, then I tried again and managed to register one for myself. No idea what the logic is.

barky & langrabbie... The documentary was very much Collins' personal viewpoint, rather than a historical analysis. I've not read any of his books so I don't know how much it might add.

Friend of Julie Birchill? Well that's his credibility shot to pieces then ;-)
Friday 29 July 2005 8.47pm
He had some good points about the planning nightmares, but what about the rest of it?
Why is he sticking up for Stephen Lawrence's murderers of all people to underline his argument? You cannot put the fact that they were called 'white trash' (boo hoo) on the same level as the racism black people get in the UK - the Lawrence case was deliberately buggered up by the police partly because one of their Dads is a criminal who is involved very closely with the old bill - how many black people are in that position ? The whole state apparatus manoevered against Stephen & his friend who survived, Dwayne Brookes, who was harrassed by the police because they were determined to fit him up for something - anything, because he was going to sue them.
I found that he romanticised working class ignorance & lack of education, whilst clearly having benefited from being well educated himself. if he wanted to have a pop at the press, why not tear them apart for all this ' chav' crap -why bring up something as disgraceful as the Lawrence murderers ? It's very suspicious.
Most of his arguments could be shot down in flames if scrutinised even slightly. He did what he was complaining of - stereotyping white people, & lumping them all in together. E.g OK a lot of white working class people were upset when Diana died - some couldn't have cared less - some are very against the Royal Family & all it stands for, & found Diana & all the hysteria over her death offensive. He made out that all of us were heart-broken when she died - I wasn't, for one.
Also, he said that white working class people were / are more acccepting of black people than middle class people - I agree but originally that was mainly IRISH people, not the English. They showed a clip of dockers I think from the sixties marching against immigrants & one of them saying that they're not against 'the coloureds' - it's just that this country can't take any more immigrants. Well, it has ever since, & I'm proud of that. For every one white person who came out with that, there's 10 who were very racist & would be more than happy to tell you all about it- so it was a highly selective clip. I was brought up in an NF stronghold, so don't give me that old baloney.
I really disagreed with the stuff about the right to buy on Council Housing - he said middle class people sneer at working class people's wish to move up in the world as he puts it. We fought for social housing & Thatcher did her best to get rid of it mainly to divide the working class (New Labour are continuing this policy). Many working class people despair at that & now there's a housing shortage & massive homelessness due to selling off of council housing - what's to celebrate ? That working class people aren't united & caring about eachother enough to protect the few social changes we won after the second war ?
People from all classes can stereotype themselves & he celebrated this.
I think the stuiff about Southwark Council's litrature was interesting - he complained about the fact that they don't mention white English people - I agree that this is political correctness gone mad - but Southwark Council is a white hierarchy like Lambeth, so putting out leaflets like this means they can tick the boxes on multi-culturism without having any real commitment to it. He did not make this point however.
Besides, I find it hard to believe he comes from the Elephant & Castle -cos anyone walking around that manor dressed like a nonce would get a good kicking ! (with a working class boot how ironic ha ha ha !)
Seriuosly tho' - it's good he has put his viewpoint forward as it encourages debate, it's just a shame his arguments are so woolly. I suspect that's because he is actually racist but is not being honest about it, that's why his arguments have got massive holes in them.
Saturday 30 July 2005 9.51pm
Hmm, I've found people can walk around Elephant & Castle wearing anything from just a dressing gown through to full evening dress and nobody will bat an eyelid.
Wednesday 3 August 2005 2.05pm
There's been quite a lot of racist attacks & other attacks round there, so it's now as laid back as you're suggesting. I thought Collin's dress was interesting as it seemed to be like someone dressing in an 'old-fashioned working class' style - I don't know any working class people of his age who dress like that - so what's that all about ?
Wednesday 3 August 2005 2.47pm
Sorry, I'm working class myself, tell me how I'm supposed to dress?
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