All these new buildings and redevelopments - but where is the transportation infrastructure?

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Saturday 21 January 2006 12.59am
I was reading about this new "Baby Shard" with 600,000 sq ft of space, in addition to god knows what space they are building in the "Shard", then the E&C redevelopment and all the stuff going up near Tower Bridge and it hit me that this is really putting the cart before the horse. There is a vast gap in trasportation infrastructure needed to move around this city....

I live near the Bricklayers arms end of Bermondsey and honestly going to work in the mornings I can barely get on any bus that goes along New Kent Road to E&C - they are all full. The Bus 21 going along Great Dover and up to London Bridge is slightly better, but as soon as it turns the corner at Borough Tube stop it literally bogs down in traffic.

Try to go underground, well there is none aroudn Bricklayers arms or Old Ken or Tower Bridge Road. Nearer to London bridge, the Jubilee Line is sardine-packed (one car added on is gonna do nada). The Northern line is jam packed in the mornings too. There should be a tue line running from the City under Tower Bridge and Down Tower Bridge road - it doesn't exist and no plans exist for one at all.

So when they build all these new buildings, how exactly is anyone going to move around in this area to get to work or go home - on foot? There is no more capacity on the public transport system. None.

And yet there is no new tube line to be built (never mind that the stretch of Old Kent-E&C-London Bridge is obviously needing it? And you cant put more buses on the road - because they wont get anywhere in the traffic on these roads. So what are people going to do? Why are they cramming all this in a place where people cannot move around properly to begin with?

I dont understand this at all. Is anyone actually doing PLANNING in this city - or are they all just selling approvals to developers and calling themselves city planners?

Or is the idea to "manage demand" by just simply pricing everybody off the public transportation system onto their own two feet?
Saturday 21 January 2006 11.07am
Agreed, transportation in this area of London is already at saturation point, especially during the morning peak.

I think the expansion of London Bridge station and the increase of throughput on the Thameslink line will add extra capacity. Apparently the extra carriage on the Jubillee line increases capacity on the line by 17%; they've also purchased 4 more trains so the frequency should increase. I'm not sure there is anything they can do to improve the Northern line train frequency, probably because of the way the line splits, joins and splits at Kenningtion and then splits again at Euston and Camden.

Maybe the extension of the East London line will draw some commuters away from London Bridge?
Saturday 21 January 2006 1.53pm
They really need more tube lines - pronto. If you sweep a line from Brixton to E&C to London Bridge Station and drag that eastward, it is a tube wasteland - and yet one of the most denesly populated residential portions of central london.

The scary thing is that building tube lines takes ages - and they dont seem to be even thinking about it, let alone executing plan or digging. And we need it yesterday..
Saturday 21 January 2006 4.49pm
There is the new Cross River Tram proposal:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/trams/initiatives/crt/index.shtml

This has branches to both Brixton and Peckham.

Not the complete solution, but it will be a start...

Regards,

Loafer
Saturday 21 January 2006 9.43pm
Traveling between Southwark and Muswel Hill ,
I have to say I disagree about the transport in this part of London ,northbound Northenline trains are always empty when arriving at ether London bridge or waterloo during the rush hour ,and the Jubilee line extension is Probably the best tube line in London.

There are bottle necks on the London underground ,most of them are on Oxford St

Further more my whole experiance of working in Southwark is that it is far less crouded far less conjested and far cleaner than the west end.and the air is cleaner to.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 21 January 2006 9.58pm by mickysalt.
Saturday 21 January 2006 9.48pm
I sat on various committees when More London Bridge was being proposed - the developers said that they had been in talks with TfL and in particular London Underground who had stated that there was more than ample capacity with London Bridge Tube Station and on the platforms for the increase in commuter numbers. Users of the station laughed somewhat sceptically at that point.

As a general comment on the central London transport system, this afternoon I used the overground railway from Charing X to London Bridge for the first time in over a year. At Charing Cross there were only two auntomated ticket machines, one for cards & cash, the other for cash - both queues were c.10 people long. Only two ticket desks were open, the queues were both c.15 people long. The information boards were blank aside from red signage that an incoming train had been cancelled. I waited 15 mins for any information to appear on the boards, then luckily it was for a train via London Bridge which was subsequently packed with resigned 'customers'. No wonder I so rarely use public transport as my infrequent experiences are always poor to put it kindly.
Sunday 22 January 2006 12.04pm
mickysalt wrote:
Traveling between Southwark and Muswel Hill ,
I have to say I disagree about the transport in this part of London ,northbound Northenline trains are always empty when arriving at ether London bridge or waterloo during the rush hour ,and the Jubilee line extension is Probably the best tube line in London.

There are bottle necks on the London underground ,most of them are on Oxford St

Further more my whole experiance of working in Southwark is that it is far less crouded far less conjested and far cleaner than the west end.and the air is cleaner to.

I'm afraid I have to disagree, Mickey. I stopped getting the Northern Line from London Bridge a couple of years ago because it was often imposssible to board the trains because they were so packed, and the platforms were frequently closed because of over-crowding.
Sunday 22 January 2006 2.01pm
The Lady Miss Jo Jo wrote:
mickysalt wrote:
Traveling between Southwark and Muswel Hill ,
I have to say I disagree about the transport in this part of London ,northbound Northenline trains are always empty when arriving at ether London bridge or waterloo during the rush hour ,and the Jubilee line extension is Probably the best tube line in London.

There are bottle necks on the London underground ,most of them are on Oxford St

Further more my whole experiance of working in Southwark is that it is far less crouded far less conjested and far cleaner than the west end.and the air is cleaner to.

I'm afraid I have to disagree, Mickey. I stopped getting the Northern Line from London Bridge a couple of years ago because it was often imposssible to board the trains because they were so packed, and the platforms were frequently closed because of over-crowding.

I've never seen it like that.
Monday 23 January 2006 10.43am
mickysalt wrote:
The Lady Miss Jo Jo wrote:

I'm afraid I have to disagree, Mickey. I stopped getting the Northern Line from London Bridge a couple of years ago because it was often imposssible to board the trains because they were so packed, and the platforms were frequently closed because of over-crowding.

I've never seen it like that.

Yes - I was in the same boat as TLMJJ and also gave up on it. Until the Jubilee Line was extended, it was easier for me to walk across London Bridge and get the District and Circle from Monument. Jubilee Line is also frequently packed.

I remember when Sellar's lot first came and floated the idea of the Shard at some community meetings, the first thing we asked them about was the capacity at London Bridge underground station.

The overground is one thing, and if T2000 ever gets the go ahead [leaving aside the merits and demerits of that scheme for a second] that issue will probably get sorted, but there is simply no extra capacity on the Northern Line at London Bridge, and little on the Jubilee Line at rush hour, for the extra workers that will inhabit the Shard and the extra businesses it attracts to the area.

TfL have been more or less explicitly pricing people off the tube for some years now because of capacity problems, and until the UK gets a government which is willing to bite the bullet and have a tax or government bond funded major investment programme to build more tube lines, or some passing loops so that some stations can be skipped for those travelling across town, the problem will simply continue to worsen. Some short-medium term extra capacity will probably be found by changing the signalling to 'moving block' (as the Jubilee line was originally intended to have when extended), but this won't solve the long term problems.
Monday 23 January 2006 5.43pm
maybe a completely new line, solely in zone 2 (or maybe 3?) like the circle line, but further out, a kind of outer ring road.

i did hear that the reason there are no (or very few) tube lines south of the river is because of the type of soil - though now it's more likely that the cost of a tube is far too expensive.
Bus and overground trains are far better south of the river than north though.
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