Antisocial behaviour near the Manna Centre

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Sunday 16 July 2006 6.52pm
i have read with interest peoples concerns regarding the poledancing club that wants to open in tooley st.Idont really see why people are so concerned it will be so well moinitered by the police and council if any of the rules are broken it will be closed and goodbye.If i was on the council i would be there as much as poss.NO its the anti-social behaviour that already exsists in this area that we should all be trying to solve. Not many people know that the concils around Southwark have closed their drop in places for the people that refuse to help themselves and so they all come to Southwark.THey come to the mannar center in melior st.here they can all meet and then go out in the small area of bermondsy st and area and make everyones life a misery .Here there is no-one who can be found gulity of bringing this area down because they are a charity and there are no rules for it.If someone said there was going to be a place where sex offenders,people with drink and drug problems people who have left prison, illigal immergrants who are off the radar all coming from other councils there would be an outcry, but its already here with no controls and people who just turn around and say {once they leave the MANNAR CENTER THEY ARE NOT OUR PROBLEM].So if KEN wants to put some of my money in to make this area safer, nicer,and a place to be proud of get rid of this MANNAR CENTER. Im sure if thislapdancing club opens, unless you are up and about at 1am or 2am you will not even know its there.
Sunday 16 July 2006 8.12pm
Maeve

Just in case this isn't a troll, have a look at:

http://www.manna.force9.co.uk/pages/aims/start.htm

Maybe you could volunteer.

Regards

Niall
Monday 17 July 2006 9.21pm
niall i read the manna thing and sounds fantastic.I will try the candle thing and hope that the people using the manna center will stop peeing in the street, fighting ,taking drugs having dog-fights,shouting verbal abuse to any girl walking near them, the police will not have to be called almost daily the council can take down the very expensive camaras , nurses from guys will be able to come home after a long night shift and not be abused. business around can get on with their lawful days, the children from snowfields school can use this road instead of busy snowfields which they have to use now.tourists will not have to seek refuge in the church and make very bad comments about this part of burmondsey and we can all thank the lord!!!!!! NOT.
Monday 17 July 2006 10.12pm
Maeve

So I take it thats a 'No' about the volunteering thing?

Speaking personally, I have a lot more difficulty with the cyclone wired compound on the other side of the road than I do with the Manna Centre. Oh well, there's not alternative. You'll have to move.

Regards

Niall
Tuesday 18 July 2006 2.30pm
Having spent 2 weeks trying to deal with some anti-social behaviour in St Mary Magdelene's Churchyard Park (this forum: People living in St Mary's Churchyard off Bermondsey Street) I'm particularly sensitive to this issue. I walk all over London and I see the same thing played out in park areas across the city, people drinking alchohol, being loud, rude to passers-by (particularly woman) and in general being anti-social as described above. Therefore, I don't see how closing the Manna Centre would accomplish much. It may disperse the problem a bit but we (the citizens of London) would still have anti-social behaviour which most of us put up with reluctantly.

Despite the massive amount of money spent on policing there's little that the police can really do. They can't lock up all these people forever, there aren't the facilities or the tax base to handle that even if it were the correct response. Without that threat, the best the police can do is spend 4 minutes giving these people a hard time and perhaps make them move on creating a huge round robbin of people moving from one park or deserted builting to another to another to another. Not eliminating the problem, just creating a perpetual migration.

We as a society simply don't have a real answer to the low level anti-social behaviour that infests our cities. Tony Blair was not wrong (IMO) when he said those many years ago, "Tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime" He just forgot to mention that he had no idea of how to be tough on the causes of crime. Without that part, the first part doesn't work either.

So its just one of those startling things that our sophisticated and technologically advanced society seems to be incapable of coping with needles in the haystack whether they be Bin Laden or local antisocials.
Tuesday 18 July 2006 5.21pm
Eric

Reasonably spoken.

There is no doubt that 'rough sleepers' do cause problems as was seen about 18 months ago in St Mary Magdalene's churchyard. With the north of the churchyard now cleared and landscaped there is less cover so I suspect that the problem will be reduced significantly.

But the fact is that 'rough sleepers' are a feature of society, albeit a tiny minority, and no-one wants them on their own doorstep, which is the problem for the Manna Centre.

When it was established in 1982/3 no-one lived in Melior Street so there was no-one to make the sort of comments made by Maeve. Setting aside the belief that many of Maeve's comments (nurses, children) were unfounded, the root of objections is usually a fear of damage to property values.

But there are two sides to that concern and maybe a more responsible approach is to check an area to make sure that there are no problems ('due diligence') prior to purchase. To undertake the purchase in the rosy glow of the estate agents blether then to find something you don't like and try and shut it down is putting the cart before the horse.

Regards and best

Niall
Tuesday 18 July 2006 5.55pm
eric you are right what you are saying but there is a way of sorting this problem out though will be long and hard.alcohol is the main problem if you see these people who are not drunk they mostly seem ok,So we tarket the shops selling to drunks [close them down if poss]but in oct/nov a new lam has been passed in Southwark which makes dringing on the streets of Southwark an offence [its not now]and police and wardens will be able to take away their drink. Now, many of these people have nothing but their drink so they will go somewhere where they can drink and not have it thrown away.Moving it somewhere else you say ,but this has been done in three other councils and alot of problems Southwark are getting is because they have had to come here,NOW these people will have to somewhere else BUT WHERE .NOT CAMDON NOT WESTMINSTER NOT LAMBETH and more councils are seeing this as a problem and are doing the same thing, it will hopfully be like smoking in public places not the done thing.But this has to be a commuity thing, call the police if you see something [they are 100%behind this, too many hours are spent on this problem and as you say they cant do much now].Call the council, make a fuss they also want this to work,but it will only work if everyone gets involved ,emember our footy supporters hada badnamerywhere but get rid of the few dick-heads respect theproper supporters and we get voted best supporters in Germany, it can be done with alittle time and effort
Tuesday 18 July 2006 6.20pm
sorry niall i should have answered your question on helping at the manna i would love too i could show them how to have a very worthy cause but to have a very low impect on the surrounding area .You have missed my point what i was saying was that a Lapdancing club was not as bad as having a place like the manna center which seems to have no guildlines on what is and what is not exceptable in regards to behaviour of the people that use the manna.i except that the manna does a very good job in trying to help some people that have problems,but surely they have a duty of care to the people that live and work near it. That was my point.You are also alittle late in saying I should move as I did six years ago but have a coupleof bussiness here so I like to keep a place so I can come and stay and see friends and keep in touch witha part of London that has been my home for many years
Tuesday 18 July 2006 10.56pm
Maeve

The Manna Centre is there to help people less fortunate than you or I. It has been there, doing that job, for 25 years. Yes, its clients aren't pretty, they may not inhabit Starbucks , they may not fit into the convenient picture of glowing consumerism that seems to be today's model but they don't deserve marginalisation.

Far far uglier is the cyclone fenced compound on the other side of Melior St which is where illegals are now taken before they are processed through our system.

But, and I hope you'll forgive me for saying this, but maybe you'd like something similar for the clients of the Manna Centre. Maybe you'd like to round them up and put them in some sort of camp for ugly inconvenient people who bring down the tone of the area.

I don't know what your problem with the Manna Centre really is but, speaking completely personally, I've never heard anyone judge Southwark by the Manna Centre. The Globe - yes. The Tate - yes. Escalating property values - yes. The Manna Centre - never.

I wish I had a fraction of the humanity and decency that the staff of the Manna Centre have and that is displayed by their actions.

Regards and best wishes

Niall
Wednesday 19 July 2006 8.54am
I live on Snowsfields about two minutes from the Manna Centre. No one from the Manna Centre has ever bothered me in the 4 years I have lived here.

Maeve, maybe you should be a bit more tolerant of your neighbours. Personally I don't have a problem with a lapdancing club or with a homeless shelter. If you're going to be a snob maybe you should move to Middle England where you might meet people who share your nasty attitudes.

The Manna Centre does admirable work and deserves our support.
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