Bricklayer's Arms Flyover / Roundabout

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Wednesday 25 April 2007 1.16pm
Hi

I'm soon to be moving to a street off Old Kent Road right near the Bricklayer's Arms flyover (buying). I think this area is just past SE1 border into SE17 but have seen posts about it in this forum before.

I'll be living close to the flyover and will be walking past/under it every time I want to go somewhere (head to either Borough or Elephant & Castle tube) and it doesn't seem to be a pleasant feeling for pedestrians especially at night. I was wondering if anyone knows details if there are any definite plans to knock it down and in what timeframe?

I have seen some old posts re some pedestrian improvements done around 2002 (sounds like it was even worse then) but can't find anything definite on future plans.

I have found a couple of things in web searches that seem positive:

A recommendation by “Old Kent Road Urban Design Walking Audit” to knock it down in a PDF document on www.southwark.gov.uk but can't find any other reference to it on the website.
“The subways near the Bricklayer's Arms should be closed and the space where they were greened up (flyover knocked down also)”

Southwark Cycle report the rumour that it will be knocked down: http://www.southwarkcyclists.org.uk/newsletters/july06news.pdf
” Bricklayers Arms flyover - rumours are that, after plenty of lobbying, Southwark Council and TfL have agreed that the flyover should be demolished due to the huge maintenance costs, and the roundabout reduced. Great news! It's a horrifying experience or even the most experienced cyclist.”

Does anyone know anymore about this or suggestions of who I could contact to find out?
Wednesday 25 April 2007 1.25pm
Last year Ken Livingstone told the London Assembly in a written answer to a question from Darren Johnson that "TfL has no plans to remove the flyover at the Bricklayers Arms"

http://mqt.london.gov.uk/mqt/question.do?id=15793

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Wednesday 25 April 2007 3.19pm
Navigating the Bricklayers Arms at night is far easier and much more pleasant now than it was pre-2002. I've never seen any incidents while walking home at night, though I stick to the pedestrian crossings and avoid the subways.

While I'd like to see the flyover removed, I don't think TfL could remove it any time soon without significantly increasing congestion in rush hour. As it is, the roundabout is often gridlocked as traffic can't flow freely into Tower Bridge Road or the New Kent Road or out of the Old Kent Road.
Wednesday 25 April 2007 3.48pm
Why on earth would you want the flyover to be removed? What a ridiculous proposition. You want the entirety of traffic going down the A2 to be inconvenienced because you don't like the flyover - that you are MOVING to be NEAR because you CHOSE to buy a house in Searles (?) Road.

I have no doubt that it is a horrific experience for a cyclist. So why do they do it? There's a perfectly decent bus service down the A2. If you enjoy cycling, move to Cambridge.
Wednesday 25 April 2007 4.37pm
Well, if the buses actually used the flyover instead of getting caught in 3 sets of traffic lights, I may be in favour of keeping it. At the moment, it's a large barrier, dividing the street and feeding speeding cars down into the Old Kent Road where people are crossing the road.

From redshoes post, it appears the flyover also makes people less confident about walking around the neighbourhood.

None of the above reasons seem particularly ridiculous to me. (Certainly not as ridiculous as telling people to move to Cambridge)

Or are your flippant comments just playful banter to encourage newly registered users to feel welcome when posting to the forum?
Wednesday 25 April 2007 5.17pm
Mapmaker has always been a cyclist, Emmesse, so I dont think you should take his comment about Cambridge too seriously!
Wednesday 25 April 2007 5.42pm
I had read that the flyover did not deliver significant benefit as it had been reduced from 2 to 1 lanes and has expensive mantainence costs.

I also read (sorry don't remember where) that the proposed solution was that the traffic could be directed through underground tunnels and the existing roundabout / flyover area changed create a less oppressive visual and make the existing location greener and more pedestrian/cycle friendly / safe.

If it is considered safer these days then that's great. I was just interested to know if there were any firm plans to change this area.

I'm not particularly interested in cycling - Southwark Cyclists website came up in a search. for "Bricklayer's Arms".
Wednesday 25 April 2007 5.49pm
Emmesse wrote:
Well, if the buses actually used the flyover instead of getting caught in 3 sets of traffic lights, I may be in favour of keeping it.

Oh the law of unintended consequences. The Bricklayers Arms Roundabout used to be passable on foot solely by subway. As a result of pressure from people who disliked using the subways, TFL put large numbers of traffic lights around the roundabout in order to provide pedestrian crossings. It therefore now takes longer for traffic to negotiate the roundabout.


Just because the buses do not use the flyover is no reason for its removal. Many other vehicles have cause to use it. Delivery vans, lorries, taxis, cars, rubbish carts etc. etc. etc.

And as I mentioned before, cycling over a flyover is bound to be scary. I have done a lot of cycling in my life, and am able to make a decision when something looks to scary that walking is a better idea. Those who are unable to - or refuse to because they believe pedal power gives them protection - conduct a risk assessment every time they approach a hazard on their bicycle will be interviewed by St Peter more quickly than will the rest of us.
Wednesday 25 April 2007 7.28pm
The Mapmaker wrote:
Those who are unable to - or refuse to because they believe pedal power gives them protection - conduct a risk assessment every time they approach a hazard on their bicycle will be interviewed by St Peter more quickly than will the rest of us.

The Mapmaker - that's the funniest and wittiest description of the hazards of riding a bike in London that I've heard for a long time.
Wednesday 25 April 2007 10.03pm
You can avoid the OKR flyover by cycling around the roundabout at Tower Bridge Rd/Dover St. It's not that bad at all. Also there are cycle routes in the area that are well worth using, such as along East St. The local place to avoid is of course the main Elephant roundabouts, but the cycle routes have been designed to steer clear of this deathtrap...
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