People that live above busy pubs

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Thursday 24 May 2007 11.06pm
I've returned home from an un-named [street name removed] pub this evening only to be told that a resident upstairs from the pub has been complaining about noise from patrons below. (It was, after all, a slow television night)

What is wrong with these people? I would have thought that if you lived above a pub (as these people have for several years), whether on a rented or ownership basis, the 'nuisance' value of living above a pub would have been built into the price of your property. It very much seems like the buyer of a house next to train tracks complaining about 'train' noises.

It is one thing to complain, in the present circumstances, of 'unreasonable' noise. However, where noise is what could 'reasonably' be expected in the circumstances, on what basis can an unhappy resident/occupant make a legitimate complaint?

As food for thought, would your view change if this unhappy resident/occupant were a regular customer at the pub downstairs from their flat - and they themselves liked nothing better than a good after hours lock-in? Would it change further if the complainant had won a sizeable cash victory in a lawsuit over the circumstances of their purchase?

My own view - i live in the city, on bermondsey street, and within yards of a number of busy drinking establishments. I constantly hear noises, at odd hours, that are annoying - but i have not yet thought that a reasonable response would be to call the local pub and lodge a complaint with the manager on duty.

If I were so annoyed by local 'pub' noises, I would call the local council with my complaint, and would expect them to investigate properly and deal with it accordingly.

I would not think it a reasonable response to phone the pub directly and expect the duty manager to give a good scolding to their customer base.

Let's all grow up. Living in one of the world's premier cities, we simply must be prepared to accept reasonable 'city' noises. If we are not, perhaps we should consider moving to, gee - i don't know - somerset?

The next time my pub landlord asks me to go inside because there has been such a complaint, I will refuse - unless my doing so is a condition of the pub's license.

If you have a problem with the noise levels of the pub you drink in until well after closing time, do the right thing and call the council with your complaoint - that way you won't put management or customers on the spot. And try to do a bit of growing up along the way...

deek
Thursday 24 May 2007 11.31pm
The legitimate complaint would surely be that the noise being created is a result of the landlord breaching his licence conditions by permitting patrons to remain on the premises after closing time...

Complaining to the landlord seems perfectly reasonable to me if this is the case.

The decision to live on [street name removed] should not be taken lightly - it is noisier than Somerset - but I would suggest that there is a balance between the needs of the local businesses and residents which isn't being kept in tact if licences aren't adhered to.
Friday 25 May 2007 8.01am
A pub or bar can dramatically change in character. You can buy a place above or near a pub, which doesn't seem to pose a problem, and then you find after a while that the pub changes hands or changes its policies and suddenly there's loud music and general disturbance. I don't think it's a question of growing up. Residents who live near places of entertainment that are run inconsiderately - sometimes indeed in breach of the terms of their licences - feel vulnerable. I'm pretty sure I can guess which pub the original post is referring to. Might it perhaps be one with an upstairs room which almost certainly has no proper sound insulation and sometimes has pretty loud music?
Friday 25 May 2007 8.12am
The thing that annoys me with the pubs on [street name removed] is that they allow people to drink on the street. Do they not require a license to allow this?? I know that pubs in the City have to have one.
Friday 25 May 2007 8.32am
Deek

it sounds like you were outside the pub until late from your one but last paragraph and if so i do not think it is unreasonible for you to be asked to keep the noise down or go inside. To refuse may get the Landlord into trouble as it will certainly be a condition of his licence that the noise level is within reason. You should also think of the people who live locally who may have to be up early or may have children who are trying to sleep-to ask you to be considerate to others who may not want to listen to loud drunken banter I would not think unfair.

I would also agree with Longlaner about pubs changing particularly with the new licencing laws coming in-one minute you are living above to a pub that is open till 11 pm then suddenly it may have a late licence with music. to therefore say that people knew what it would be like living above a pub is not always the case

Also the resident should have complained to the council I agree as the complaints are then listed and noted and then can be used as evidence if the licence is reviewed-the complainee was therefore doing the landlord of the pub a favour by complaining directly!
Friday 25 May 2007 8.50am
Complaining directly to the landlord/staff is rather more likely to yield immediate results than going through the council and its bureaucratic mechanisms! People who complain about noise from pubs, bars and restaurants are not, on the whole, killjoys; they simply want some peace, and would sooner maintain diplomatic relations with their neighbours than start involving licensing groups and so on. The problem, frequently, is that licensees cannot control their patrons. The other night I was outside the Hide Bar and three guys were playing a game that seemed to involve shouting a word I probably can't post here as loud as possible. Putting up with this kind of thing may be part and parcel of urban living, but it isn't a mark of immaturity to want people to behave thoughtfully.
Friday 25 May 2007 5.50pm
Deek

I am really surprised by your blog. I live on Bermondsey Street and bought my place. Ater this time a new pub/resturante openend up after me. Then applied for a late licence. Does this mean I should sell my flat beacuse I also do not appreciate drunken shouting at 1 am outside my bedroom window?? I dont think so..! I live on Bermondsey Street and expect noise, shouting and drinking in the street is not what I want my street to turn into.
Calling the landlord is the best and honest solution. At least he knows who is making the complaint and he is able to respond to the complaint directly.

Other point for discuion - The smoking ban comes into effect on the 1st July (At last.!) Does this mean all the customers of the pub will then be smoking outside till 1 am in the morning. I have noticed Village East now as an ash tray attached to the outside of its door? Anyone know were local residance stand on this new law?
Friday 25 May 2007 6.54pm
If New York and Dublin are anything to go by your street will be full of drinkers nipping out for a smoke and taking the party with them.
Friday 25 May 2007 8.42pm
I lived above a pub which then subsequently got a late licence. It was absolute hell.

http://takemystuff.co.uk <-- free stuff and get rid of your unwanted stuff
Friday 25 May 2007 8.50pm
This article has some interesting tips for sound insulation:

http://www.findaproperty.com/displaystory.aspx?edid=99&salerent=99&storyid=08327

When I lived on Baker St. (drunk people shouting, traffic, sirens 24/7), I found that installing secondary glazing made a huge difference.

I think Birdie's comments are spot on and that the problem will get worse with smokers loitering outside so perhaps now would be a good time to see what measures you can take to improve things.

Chris

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