Trinty Street closed

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Tuesday 30 September 2003 11.16am
Can any explain the reason for the street closures in the area around Trinity Sq? It's bad enough being charged 126 Congession Charge to live just inside the area, without then having to queue up to leave the Tabard Gardens Estate every morning. All traffic is now directed to the crossroads @ Borough tube station or to the Elephant and Castle. Does anyone know who to contact regarding this matter?

Tuesday 30 September 2003 11.37am
I understand that one of the main reasons was resident's concerns about rat-running which was taking place down Falmouth Road. Numerous vehicles have been damaged and the noise has been intolerable since the introduction of the closure of Trinity Street as a through-road lead to Falmouth Road becoming a mini-dual carriageway at all times of the day.

The latest change was instituted by Southward Council in conjunction with Transport for London. For now, it is just a temporary measure, though I - and no doubt other residents of the area - support it.
Tuesday 30 September 2003 11.38am
What I would like to know Martin is are these closures permanent? or just while the works are being completed in Globe Street?

your right about the flipping queue....

is there a young man called Trevor Wilding in charge of roadworks..

Tuesday 30 September 2003 12.05pm
From my point of view, these barricades are (a bit OTT, in that they look like anti-terrorist measures, but) fantastic.

You are right to say that they are there to stop the traffic rat-running down Falmouth Rd, following the closure of Trinity St. That was a real problem. For pretty much the whole of the day there used to be a stream of traffic coming off the Bricklayers Arms roundabout/Gt Dover St and filtering left into the top of Trinity St and straight down Falmouth Rd.

This was dangerous and noisy and the volumes of traffic were far too much for such a small rd (with traffic parked - legally- on both sides of the road at all times of the day).

I'm in full support of this measure, and hope it gets made permanent.

I can't see who it causes a real inconvenience to, apart from to the (non-residents) who used to turn the road outside my flat into a raceway. The blocking off of Trinity Street (whilst obviously a boon for residents of Trinity Church Square itself) has been the direct cause of the trouble down Falmouth Rd.

IMHO it was ridiculous for the council to block off the middle of Trinity St without blocking off Falmouth Rd/Gt Dover St at the same time. The one blockage was obviously going to funnel the traffic down Falmouth Rd. It's madness that it's taken them so long to realise and rectify that (and lucky no one's been run over on Falmouth Rd while we've been waiting for this).
Tuesday 30 September 2003 12.27pm
The reason the area has been turned into a rat run down Falmouth Rd is because of the roads closures and no entry signs in the area. I feel sorry for the residents who live in Falmouth Rd as it is not a suitable road for the ammount of traffic it asked to carry. Why was Trinity Street closed in the first place? Surely this street and it's branches were capable of carrying the amount of traffic? Trying to head south west to the Elephant after rush hour as I do, has now become a 20 minute queue 2 minutes from leaving the car park what ever way I go.
Tuesday 30 September 2003 12.41pm
The closure of the Trinity St on Gt Dover ST JUnction is part of the continued effort to calm the residential streets of the Trinity-Newington Estate.
Further details are on the TNRA website (including plans / pictures)and have been EXTENSIVELY discussed, consulted on and revised.
I for one fully support these efforts to get through traffic and rat-running commuter traffic off these residential roads.

If all goes well, in a couple of weeks the junction of Swan St with Gt Dover ST will also be closed.

There are Traffic Notices (and large signs) posted to this effect all around the local area. Also advertised in the local papers.

Martin, it is very unfair to blame Southwark council for not anticipating the increase in traffic on Falmouth Rd after the Trinity St Gate was put in place last year.

The original Traffic Calming Plans included preventing Traffic from entering Trinity St from Gt Dover. However, due to the Strong (and may I say misguided) vocal opposition from residents of Falmouth Rd and the East end of Trinty St, these propsals were dropped at the last minute. It was always obvious what would happen.....

This, I suppose is one of the downsides of such wide consultation in traffic plans.

Hopefully the temporary road closures will become permanent this time (the scheme you may remember was trialled last year, pre-congestion charging) and failed due to the high volumes of traffic. This only proved (if proof were needed) to those concerned how much blight the commuter ratrunning was causing.

Before anyone brings up the old "trinity st for posh people " chestnut / argument....... take a look around at all the large council estates in the area. You will find that they are all traffic calmed and free of rat-runs. It also displays a profound lack of knowledge about the sort of people who live on the Trinity-Newington Estate.

I for one, welcome the day when our residential roads are QUIET and SAFE for pedestrians, and children to PLAY in.

I guess this will re-open the old debate about car owners and commuters wanting to be free to drive wherever and whenever they want, against the needs of local residents to have a safe and pleasant environment. (see previous trinity street thread which ran and ran...).
I feel sure that in this day and age, in a very overcrowded city that commuter traffic should be on the main roads and not rat-running through residential neighbourhoods. Both Southwark Council, TfL and TNRA (the local residents association) fully support this view.

The estate is now, for the first time a quiet pleasant place for the many pedestraians and cyclists who travel through and spend time there WITHOUT forcing their pollution and noise on the local residents.

Post edited (30 Sep 03 12:50)
Tuesday 30 September 2003 12.49pm
Shortly, further changes are going to be made to the traffic controls...including closure of: -

Trinity Street's junction with Great Dover Street
Globe Street's junction with Great Dover St
Swan Street (North's) junction with Great Dover St

Please see following link for more info..


Tuesday 30 September 2003 12.51pm the people that now live with queues of cars out side THEIR homes?

Why and how did Trinity Street get closed? Isn't that the reason we are now jammed in our homes? There is no route from Tabard Gardens to the Elephant with out joining a large traffic jam..INSIDE THE CONGESTION ZONE! So are we suppose to swallow the charge as another stealth tax? I paid up promptly to the scheme as I thought it would work. How on earth can road closures cure traffic congestion?
Tuesday 30 September 2003 1.00pm
Well, The Trinity / falmouth ratrun was also INSIDE the Congestion Zone, so that the Junction Closure makes NO difference to whether or not you pay the charge.

Sorry!, I thought THE OLD argument of last Spring was over - and had been won rather convincingly by Ken.....

Lets create a ratrun through tabard gardens........yeah? Right.....

The through traffic is on THE A2 - (thats a TRUNK ROAD which is often dual carriageway), where it belongs AND not ON fALMOUTH ROAD OR TRINITY STREET - BOTH residential roads of terrace housing directly on the pavements.

I am sorry if you need a car to get from tabbard gardens to elephant and castle. The choice is yours about whether to pay and queue, but I'm sure it will all settle down over the next week or so - as people change their routines / routes.

Post edited (30 Sep 03 13:07)
Tuesday 30 September 2003 1.11pm
Martin Oliver wrote:

> There is no route from Tabard Gardens to the Elephant with out joining a large traffic jam

I would rephrase your comment to say: "there is no quick/direct route from Tabard Gardens to the Elephant without cutting through residential areas". There are plenty of choices on which main road route to take from your place to the E&C. As you point out, they're all busy. This is because there are too many cars on the roads. A lot of other London residents have recognised this and (shock!) they walk, cycle, or take public transport.

What gives your "right" to drive through the overcrowded residential roads precedence above the right of the residents to be able to go about their ordinary business?

> How on earth can road closures cure traffic congestion?
I'm tempted to say "Who cares?", but the serious point is that these road closures are in order to improve safety and quality of life for residents, NOT for the benefit of motorists passing through.

Remeber, we live in a city with too many people, not enough houses, and TOO MANY CARS. Ignoring the moral arguments, it is common sense to realise that it's just not on to demand a "right" to drive down every road in the land, regardless of residents' concerns
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