Bus Lanes

Ivanhoe wrote:

Hmm. But what relevance has The Knowledge, meters, etc to allowing black cabs in bus lanes?
One cab in a bus lane, with, perhaps two occupants in it....versus a bus half full of people. Why should the cab get special treatment?

Well, I'm going way out on a limb here, but I'm guessing that it is the occupants of the cab that are getting "special" treatment, because they are opting to use a different method of transportation around London than their cars, and the driver of the black cab is being allowed to use the bus lane because he has gone the extra mile, (no pun intended), to do The Knowledge and prove that he is of good character, and thus earn the right to buy, maintain, and drive a licensed taxi.
None of that comes cheap I'd guess, and I feel that mini cabs and their drivers have not earned the same rights as black cab drivers have.
But to each their own, we allegedly live in a free society and have the freedom of choice, my choice is the tube over buses, and black cabs over mini cabs.

Black cab drivers' expertise, and CRBs, etc, already allow them to charge hefty fares. I'd say the fares were so big now, that black cabs are out of reach of people on average incomes most of the time.

Why should buses be held up to benefit those well off enough to use black cabs?

If bus lanes were solely for buses, wouldn't that increase the attractiveness of the bus as a means of travel (as buses would be held up less)?

Bus companies also issue timetables and expected time of arrivals - which is very helpful.

Those times are based largely on a free flowing bus lane populated by buses.

Ivanhoe wrote:

Black cab drivers' expertise, and CRBs, etc, already allow them to charge hefty fares.
Why should buses be held up to benefit those well off enough to use black cabs?

I am out of the game now, but as a one time black cab owner/driver I can offer an informed opinion of sorts.
It is not their expertise and clean criminal records that allow drivers to charge what you describe as hefty fares, and I'll grant you, that if you get caught in heavy traffic, or have to take a detour because some roads seem to be closed for ever, the fares can get high.
These traffic hold-ups are not the fault of the taxi driver, they are the fault of London's traffic planners, who are about as much use as a chocolate fire-guard.
The driver can only charge that which is decided by TFL.
The fare structure is set annually by TFL and the Mayor.
The Licensed Taxi Drivers Association petition TFL annually for a raise in fares due to inflation, cost of fuel, running costs, prices of new cabs, hikes in insurance etc.
TFL and the Mayor's office take all this into consideration, weigh it all up, and decide yes or no to a raise.
What they normally arrive at, if they feel that a raise is justified, is maybe a small rise in the initial charge, or flag fall, of for example 20p.
They then, if they deem it necessary, decrease the yardage, or meterage that the cab will travel before the meter clicks up another 20p.
So in effect, where you might have travelled 4 miles for £X before the raise, you will have the same £X on the meter after travelling 3.8 miles after the meter has been re-calibrated to the new fare structure.
In closing, I would dispute that black cabs hold up buses by being in bus lanes, rarely does one see a bus behind a string of cabs at traffic lights.

As ever, I've got a lot of time for your opinions, Tom, especially on this topic, but I'd say:

- (in my experience, and using the internationally recognised "how many pints does it cost?" test), cab fares have risen at least two-fold over the last 10 yrs, which seems excessive to me. Wages definitely haven't risen by that much.

- it's disingenuous to say that cabbies can only charge the fares that TfL set. Yes, I know that TfL regulate the fares, but I'm sure you're not suggesting that cabbies have ever been petitioning TfL to lower the fares out of concern for passengers, are you?

- cabs in the bus lanes can only mean less space for buses.

For clarification, I would love to be able to afford to use a black cab on a regular basis for pleasure trips. I've got a lot of respect for the drivers and their knowledge, and I understand the dangers of unlicensed "minicabs".

Also, I should say that I benefit from using bus lanes from time to time when I'm on my scooter and I appreciate that benefit.

But, if the real aim of bus lanes is to make buses travel more quickly, I would question whether cabs of any sort, or motorbikes, should be allowed in bus lanes at all.

Ivanhoe, at the risk of sounding like I am promoting a mutual admiration society, I have to honestly state that I respect your opinions, and postings, too.
Whether I agree with your opinions or not, they are invariably intelligently stated.
I'm unsure of what you mean when you say that it's disingenuous to say that taxi drivers, (NEVER cabbies to me, that word evokes an image of an old stager driving a hansom cab, with a scruffy muffler and a snotty nose dripping through his moustache,) can only charge the fares that TFL set.
Yes, if TFL increases fares, it is because the L.T.D.A. have asked for a hike, but they will only accede to that hike if they feel that financial variables justify it.
My first thought was that you were suggesting that drivers might sometimes ask for more than was on the clock at the end of a trip.
They could do, but they would be stupid to try it, and the passenger even more so to pay it.
To my knowledge, no taxi driver, or drivers association, has ever petitioned for a decrease in fares, BUT, I have been present in quite a few taxi driver watering holes over the years where guys have expressed disquiet at whatever the latest hike has been, (usually in times of recession, as today),with mutterings of, "shooting ourselves in the foot", etc.
In closing I reiterate that I don't think that black cabs, motorcycles, or scooters hold up buses by being in bus lanes, cyclists maybe, with their wobbling progress from traffic lights, (the rare ones that obey traffic lights that is.)

I agree Tom that I've never felt that any taxi holds up a bus...the other way around possibly but even if a taxi stops to drop off a fare it's usually pretty quick.
I wish I could afford taxis more too...alas, until I win the lottery no chance.

Fair enough, Tom. (Sorry for the C-word. "Taxi drivers" in future ;0))

Re the fares: yes, I meant that it was perhaps fairer to say "the LTDA lobby for the fare increases", rather than "oh dear, TfL have put the fares up and we're powerless in the whole process". I take your point about the LTDA not representing all drivers, though, and it's interesting to hear that some drivers think/thought that increases were sometimes counterproductive.

Not sure on the issue of bikes and taxis holding up bus traffic, though. As a for instance, I go down Park Lane every day, and often use the bus lane for the last stretch southbound. At the times I use it, that junction at the bottom of P Lane is generally backed up to some extent, and the bus lane is often at least half full of taxis and bikes. My reasoning was that every non-bus taking up space in the bus lane is holding back the buses from getting through the lights while they're still green. Perhaps the effect is immaterial, but that's the way my reasoning took me to that thought.

All the best

Thinking back to when I used to approach Hyde Park Corner from Park Lane, you are right, the bus lane at the lower end of Park Lane was always heavily used by taxis. A lot of buses, on the approach to H.P. Corner would move to the two right hand lanes, presumably routes that were heading for Knightsbridge w/bound. Even the ones that were making for Grosvenor Place, toward Victoria would tend to stay out of the bus lane, leaving that for routes that went along Piccadilly.
Personally I was almost always in the bus lane, whether I was intending to go to Piccadilly, Constitution Hill, Grosvenor Place, or even Grosvenor Crescent, it was easy for me to gun it, (safely of course), when the light changed, and get ahead of slower moving buses and coaches to my right, without inconveniencing them.
Thanks for your honest discourse on the subject Ivanhoe, I think that we both respect the other's viewpoint, we'll just have to amicably agree to disagree a little, O.K.?

Hi Tom, I just read this and wanted to wish you well in your retirement, and also express just a wee bit of jealousy :-)

It's always been useful getting your insight, given how many black taxis there are in SE1. If we'd known you were retiring we would have insisted that you recruit a replacement first!