Northern Ireland

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Chimney Sweep
Wednesday 12 June 2002 8.55am
Would anyone agree, when I say that Northern Ireland is more hassle than it's worth?

If Ireland and its freedom fighters want it back so much that they are prepared to kill hundreds of innocent people why argue?

Its not as if its rich in gold, oil, textiles. In fact I would have it a guess that it's costing us billions?

No?
Wednesday 12 June 2002 10.47am
Jesus Christ this is chatter?

did you actually think this through at all?

so what you are saying is that if someone lives in a country and they think it it is by rights theirs then the ruling powers should just leave town? would't that be a simple world to live in, maybe we can get everyone India and Pakistan to go to sing-along sound of music whilst we are at it..

and the only reason for somewhere being included in the chimney sweep republic is? oil, gold and textiles? so I guess the in your utopia Wales (not a huge amont of gold there) Scotland (oh but what about the tartan) Cornwall (pasty exports are down in recent years) will all be excluded.

do you not understand that their are people in northern ireland who want to stay part of the UK? what happens to them exactly them.

The Northern Ireland issue is a very complex one and British rule is now only a small part of the equation, Drug dealing, extortion and a pure love of violence being hidden under a romatic mask of freedom fighting and people making half hearted comments like yours are not going to help the issue
Superstar
Wednesday 12 June 2002 2.23pm
Hopefully, chimmney sweep, you were just trying to provoke a reaction with those comments. However I too think we should (carefully) pull out of N Ireland. Military presence is surely only going to make things worse. Countries should deal with problems like this without outside interference, thus localising the issue and scaling it down. In this age of devolution, I think it is almost inevitable that N Ireland will become more and more separated from Britain, as have Scotland and Wales to some extent. This does not necessarily mean though that it has to merge with southern Ireland.
Chimney Sweep
Wednesday 12 June 2002 2.56pm

If I personally had the choice Biscuit Dipper, there would be no uk!

Scotland wants its freedom, hence its own government, and Wales always seems to moan.

If they want to be part of us, then we should reclaim land from the sea, like the Dutch and house them here, Ireland takes over the derelict land and everybody's happy?
Wednesday 12 June 2002 3.10pm
Superstar - what exactly do you mean by 'Countries should deal with problems like this without outside interference' NI is part of the UK?

Chimney If the Majority of Scots and the moaning welsh really want freedom then why don't they all vote for the Nationalist parties in general elections? that's because the majority feel both Scots/Welsh as well as British.
Superstar
Wednesday 12 June 2002 5.10pm
Actually a lot of people in Scotland do vote for their national party, and if they don't it is because they are voting tactically to oust the tories/labour (or they aren't voting at all). I think you will find that most Scottish/ Welsh people prefer to be called Scottish/Welsh and not British. the home countries are still countries with traditions & history even though they are grouped together under the larger banner of Great Britain. What I mean when I say we should leave N Ireland to it is that, like Chimmney sweep, I think that N Ireland should eventually be independent and the less interference from Britain (which in this instance means England - and that is part of the problem) the better. If we play it right we can help N Ireland devolve and evolve but we have to pull out the military and leave it to an Irish govt. to deal with the conflict.
Thursday 13 June 2002 10.46am
Good lord - I take one day off work, and come back to discover this forum has turned into a venue for heated debates!

Regarding whether people call themselves Scottish, Welsh or Irish rather than British, though, is a more a reflection of the ethnic mix of those countries than allegiance/ non-allegiance to Britain. Scotland, Ireland and Wales are much less ethnically diverse than England, therefore, having a generic name for people who live in that country is not such an issue as it is in England. I am not English, but I would refer to myself as British, as would my friends who were born in this country but whose parents/ grandparents come from other countries.

To be honest, the sooner we join Europe the better - then all this blathering on about self-rule will be redundant.
Thursday 13 June 2002 10.56am
And another thing - Chimney Sweep, regarding Northern Ireland, have you not noticed that there are two lots of "freedom fighters" (AKA terrorists - funny how America can reconcile its current stance on terrorism with its supposrt for the IRA over the past years, but that's another discussion altogether) one set wanting to stay part of the UK and one part wanting to be part of the republic of Ireland? Which is why Britain can't just withdraw from the area and leave them to it.

Incidentally, the military got involved in NI at the request of the Catholics because they were getting so much hassle (and worse) from the Protestants, (a recent example of which was that trouble last year when bombs were thrown at children on their way to school.)
Superstar
Thursday 13 June 2002 11.04am
You call yourself british because England is Britain: the parliament is here and the laws are passed here, Tony Blair is English - England is the main concern, or so it appears If parliament was in edinburgh you may feel a little different.. And what is wrong with self rule? Do you suggest that our laws should be dictated to us by Europe? Devolution is the way forward - giving more independence to Scotland, N Ireland and Wales - then the people who live in the country actually get a say in what is going on there. at the same time we must expand and extend our international connections and joining europe is inevitable, but not at the expense of our independence.
Superstar
Thursday 13 June 2002 11.07am
If we don\'t withdraw from N ireland, what do you suggest we do then? I don\'t say immediately but that is what we have to aim for in my opinion
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