Can't blame him

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Thursday 19 May 2016 11.09pm
A neighbour asked me on Thursday if I'd take him to City Airport on Friday.
I said that it 's quicker to get the Jubilee from Bermondsey to Silvertown, then switch to the DLR, probably 35 minutes in total.
I said, "But don't you usually fly into Hanover? City don't have a flight into there do they?
"No", he said, "I'm going into Düsseldorf, then taking the train"
"How so?" I said, "don't you usually go from Luton direct to Hanover?"
"Yes, but not after that Egyptair fiasco, Luton is about 70% Muslim, and loads of them work at the airport, not worth taking a chance."
I suppose he has a point, but I said that he probably had nothing to worry about, not all Muslims are bad.
He said, "Would you take a chance on Luton, when for another £40 you could go from Stansted, or Gatwick?"
He had me there, I couldn't argue that one.
Friday 20 May 2016 7.32am
Tom Pepper wrote:
A neighbour asked me on Thursday if I'd take him to City Airport on Friday.
I said that it 's quicker to get the Jubilee from Bermondsey to Silvertown, then switch to the DLR, probably 35 minutes in total.
I said, "But don't you usually fly into Hanover? City don't have a flight into there do they?
"No", he said, "I'm going into Düsseldorf, then taking the train"
"How so?" I said, "don't you usually go from Luton direct to Hanover?"
"Yes, but not after that Egyptair fiasco, Luton is about 70% Muslim, and loads of them work at the airport, not worth taking a chance."
I suppose he has a point, but I said that he probably had nothing to worry about, not all Muslims are bad.
He said, "Would you take a chance on Luton, when for another £40 you could go from Stansted, or Gatwick?"
He had me there, I couldn't argue that one.

I think I get where he's coming from, but in fact Luton is just under 25% Muslim I think.
I haven't had a flight from there for years, but I do remember feeling like I was in Casablanca airport when I was there.
As you so rightly say Tom, they're not all bad, but it's hard to rid your mind of that 'what if' feeling.
Friday 20 May 2016 3.38pm
Well, to respond to the thread title, I can and will blame him. Assuming Tom is reporting the conversation accurately, he sounds nasty, ignorant and bigoted.

Tom, Debrajoan - would you just listen to yourselves?
"...he has a point, but ... not all Muslims are bad"
"I get where he's coming from" "...feeling like I was in Casablanca..."
This is awful, quite offensive stuff. Just try the standard test: replace "Muslims" with the name of a different group, e.g. "not all Irish are bad" - what do you think?

(Never mind the fact that the cause of the flight MS804 tragedy is unknown at this time.)
Friday 20 May 2016 3.48pm
He sounds nothing other than frightened to me, so hang him. Typical response to genuine concerns, he's nasty and bigoted.

We've been here before.
Friday 20 May 2016 4.41pm
boroughonian wrote:
He sounds nothing other than frightened to me, so hang him. Typical response to genuine concerns, he's nasty and bigoted.
So, this guy chooses his departure airport based primarily on (his perception of) how many Muslims work there - the fewer the better. Sorry, to me that evidences bigotry rather than a "genuine concern".
Friday 20 May 2016 5.11pm
boroughonian wrote:
He sounds nothing other than frightened to me, so hang him. Typical response to genuine concerns, he's nasty and bigoted.
We've been here before.

I guess I see your point, particularly with the news this afternoon that the Egyptair plane had had engine trouble in 2013, and there were concerns about had it been fixed satisfactorily or not.
As for my neighbour, to my knowledge, nothing frightens him, he's not nasty, he even painted two pensioner's doors and window frames for nothing other than a coffee and sandwich.
As for bigoted, his son is engaged to a girl from Barbados, and one of his daughters had a long term relationship with a Muslim boy from Mauritius.
The Mauritian boy's parents stayed at my neighbour's place for two weeks when they came over to meet his then girlfriend.
For what it's worth, offend or please, given the option of a flight from either Luton or Stansted, my response to genuine concerns would mean that I'd be taking the Stansted express from Liverpool Street station.
Colour me bigoted if you wish, my shoulders are broad enough to take it, I see it as erring on the side of caution.
Friday 20 May 2016 5.20pm
Tom Pepper wrote:
Colour me bigoted if you wish, my shoulders are broad enough to take it, I see it as erring on the side of caution.

Refusing to ever cross a road for fear of getting knocked down is also erring on the side of caution. Assuming that security is tighter in Stansted or Gatwick than Luton appears fairly baseless to me. All in all I dont think your neighbour's action is proportionate to the underlying risk.
Saturday 21 May 2016 12.40pm
Neil wrote:
Tom Pepper wrote:
Colour me bigoted if you wish, my shoulders are broad enough to take it, I see it as erring on the side of caution.

Refusing to ever cross a road for fear of getting knocked down is also erring on the side of caution. Assuming that security is tighter in Stansted or Gatwick than Luton appears fairly baseless to me. All in all I dont think your neighbour's action is proportionate to the underlying risk.

This has all the hallmarks of developing into a yah-boo, sucks to you exchange, so I'm out after this, but I don't think that the level of good or bad security at Stansted, Gatwick, Heathrow, or Luton was part of the equation being debated.
What I THINK was being put forward, was that if you accept that a certain slice of society, in this case radicalised Muslims, have a penchant for, and a track record of, attacking the aviation industry, be it planes, or airports, then avoiding, (if you can), places where the majority of the workforce are Muslim, and here I'm emphatically NOT saying that most of that workforce is radicalised, then you may feel that you are lessening your chances of being in the wrong place, at the wrong time.
THAT, I feel, is erring on the side of caution, and I would not blame anyone who felt that way.
Sunday 22 May 2016 10.27am
Debrajoan wrote:
Neil wrote:
Tom Pepper wrote:
Colour me bigoted if you wish, my shoulders are broad enough to take it, I see it as erring on the side of caution.

Refusing to ever cross a road for fear of getting knocked down is also erring on the side of caution. Assuming that security is tighter in Stansted or Gatwick than Luton appears fairly baseless to me. All in all I dont think your neighbour's action is proportionate to the underlying risk.

This has all the hallmarks of developing into a yah-boo, sucks to you exchange, so I'm out after this, but I don't think that the level of good or bad security at Stansted, Gatwick, Heathrow, or Luton was part of the equation being debated.

I've never engaged in "yah-boo" posts and the points I raised were about the action described in the original post rather than speculation about the potential motive for that action so I fail to see how it qualifies as "sucks-to-you" either.

All I'm saying is that before going so far out of my way I'd want some kind of evidence that doing so would materially reduce the overall risk associated with taking the journey. As the statistics show that there have been far more fatalities in German train crashes than there have been in passenger flights departing from Luton Airport my point is that the person concerned may be going miles out of his way *and* actually increasing the risk of dying on his journey which doesnt seem like a sensible strategy. (Granted the risk of death is minimal either way but that's just another reason not to go miles and miles out of your way.)
Sunday 22 May 2016 10.27am
Oops - tripled posted somehow!
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