''All good things come in threes''

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Thursday 2 June 2005 1.49am
Well, here comes the third queery...

Almost everyday when i put the TV on, i will be confronted by some advert telling me they have developed a new and improved washing powder. And, not only is it new companies, but also companies that have already been making washing powder.

So, for these already established companies - I take these points.

If this is improved from a previous washing powder, what was wrong with the old one - surely all they do is clean clothes, are my clothes going to burst into flames one day or form legs and leave my house due to them being washed in their old washing powder?!

Also, they say THIS washing powder is new, they also say IT is improved - its either one or the other, how can something which has just been invented been improved, I believe you have to make something and then improve it. Something cant already be improved if it is just invented.

The mind boggles, it really does.

I ask for your assistance my london friends, all help appreciated - let your minds run wild - but try not to be confused.

Toodles.
Thursday 2 June 2005 7.21am
Improved = more expensive?

and you right Colin, I am confused!....:-)



Thursday 2 June 2005 5.46pm
The one improvement is that most modern "biological" washing powders will clean most moderately dirty "whites" at lower washing tempreratures than their predecessors - saving a lot of energy .

And, for what its worth, my perception is that with the newest "fizzing action" tablets, you can getting away with washing everything at 40 degrees C or lower.

Unfortunately, a lot of people just run things on the programme they have always used.
Friday 3 June 2005 8.17pm
LR wrote:The one improvement is that most modern "biological" washing powders will clean most moderately dirty "whites" at lower washing tempreratures than their predecessors - saving a lot of energy .


So far as I am aware, the advertising campaign to convince you that biological powders work at low temperatures 'even down to 30 degrees' is a load of twaddle. Wash at 60 for clean clothes - that's the optimum temperature for biological powders.
Saturday 4 June 2005 8.47am
Apparently all this washing of bedsheets at lower temperatures means that people are getting clean bed bugs instead of dead bed bugs! 60 degrees minimum!
Saturday 4 June 2005 9.05am
If you look at the products in your bathroom you'll find most have 'New' or 'Improved' or somesuch claim.
Something that always gets me is the claim that a food product contains 3/4 helpings.
I buy lots of sachets of rice which say this, and though they may provide 3/4 helpings for anorexic
budgies, I find 1 packet = 1 portion.
Mind you I did try a tin of Stagg Extra Hot and Spicy chili con carne yesterday and
I still feel as if I ate hot coals so not all claims are dubious.
Monday 6 June 2005 3.47pm
The Mapmaker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So far as I am aware, the advertising campaign to
> convince you that biological powders work at low
> temperatures 'even down to 30 degrees' is a load
> of twaddle. Wash at 60 for clean clothes - that's
> the optimum temperature for biological powders.

I can only assume this response is sponsored by the "Friends of Impoverished Shareholders in Regulated Energy Utilities".

I had thought the whole point about biological washing powders is that they contain enzymes (proteases and lipases IIRC) which act as catalysts to allow the detergent reaction at lower temperature than would otherwise be the case. Enzymes are likely to "denature" at higher temperatures.


Tuesday 7 June 2005 12.18am
It's a long time since I did my O-levels (as the fact I did O-levels shows) but if I remember correctly "biological" enzymes work best at body temperature, i.e. just under 40 degrees for humans (and around that for other mammals) and are denatured at 64 degrees (why do I remember that?) So if you're using biologial washing powder, using a 60 degree wash renders the washing powder less effective than using a 40 degree wash. However, the degree of agitation your washing programme uses will have an effect on the efficacy of the wash - the more agitation, the cleaner the clothes. I have about five different 40 degree programmes on my machine and tailor the programme to how dirty the clothes are (and the type of material I'm washing). For anything that is particularly stained, I treat it with Vanish before washing. I very, very rarely use a wash programme hotter than 40 degrees,and on those rare occasions I do, I use non-biological washing powder.

Using a programme with lots of agitation at 40 degrees wth biological powder (Persil Performance tablets, in case you're interested) gets rid of food stains and blood stains, etc. out of white cotton items and leaves them spotless. Washing the same items at 60 degrees just sets the stains....

I'm not sure about the bed bug statement - won't any remaining after the wash be killed when you starch and iron your sheets? ;-D






I don't iron my sheets. But don't bed bugs live in your mattress anyway? So whether or not some are killed when you wash your sheets is immaterial, really.
Jac
Tuesday 7 June 2005 9.37am
I don't know if bed bugs are killed at 60 degrees, but the house dust mite is, so I do wash my bed clothes at this higher temperature and if you suffer with an allergy to house dust mite it would be recommended to do this. All other clothes I was at a lower temperature, as TLMJJ as we would all expect is correct ( I studied Home Economics at polytechnic - which shows my age as these don't exsist anymore)
Tuesday 7 June 2005 12.28pm
TLMJJ is right that human and mammal enzymes are denatured not much above body temperature, but there are all kinds of amazing wee beasties that live at more extreme temperatures than we can put up with. That said I have no idea if it's these enzymes in the washing powder and being a bit of a sensative type I mostly avoid biological washing powder and do the same as Jac, bed clothes at 60 and everything else at 40.
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