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Southwark Council to refuse licenses

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Tuesday 14 April 2009 3.47pm
loannaflex, as an interested bystander who can't vote, may I point out that you haven't really answered Zoe's concerns? I agree with what you said in your last post, but how can you ensure enough police presence would be provided to prevent the anti-social behavior? And is this extra policing cost outweighed by the benefits of having more places to drink (and employ people) and more drinkers? If you want to be elected, I'd suggest you might engage more directly in the discussion than just making libertarian statements. (And I speak as a libertarian myself.)
Tuesday 14 April 2009 6.10pm
Are you serious Ioannaflex? Exacerbate an existing problem of antisocial behaviour then hire more police or redirect existing police to deal with the problem!?

If you really are someone ambitious for public office then you need to come up with practical ideas to make people's lives better not worse.
Thursday 23 April 2009 11.56am
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Friday 24 April 2009 10.27am
loannaflex wrote:
Businesses are having such a hard time at the moment and people drink more when they are stressed. But it is typical of the council that their only solution is to penalise the people who generate their revenue and pay many people's wages. Yes, it is disturbing for the residents so why not just put more police on the streets at night when the pubs are closing?
Loanna Morrison
Bermondsey resident
and Conservative Parliamentary candidate for Bermondsey and Old Southwark

I'm rather taken aback by your somewhat ill thought out approach to the concerns of local residents. I think we're all agreed that the recession presents a problem for local businesses, but in putting forward this as a reason to justify the licensing of additional license premises seems rather one dimensional.

I most certainly don't see the logic in your argument that we should encourage people to drink on the basis that they're stressed out! Have you any idea how much alcohol related violence and illness cost this country in a year?

This whole licensing mess was cause by central government removing the concept of 'need' from the licensing process. Too much time was spent listening to the lobbyists and not enough time was spent on doing the right thing!

A Balance is required and it seems logical to me that once an area has X number of licensed premises that additional scrutiny should be placed upon further applications. This is entirely sensible and has nothing to do with restricting 'enterprise'.

I'd also suggest that you've very much put the cart in front of the horse when it comes to your suggestion that any problems caused by the presence of licensed premises can or should be addressed by the presence of additional policing resources.

The primary responsibility for the prevention of crime and disorder in relation to the service of alcohol lies with the licensee and not the police.
Friday 24 April 2009 1.56pm
The police can surely spend their time more fruitfully than dealing with drunken revellers? The implied attitude - "Let the violence happen, and then let the police deal with it" - is morally offensive. In any case, heavy drinking and violent behaviour are hardly antidotes to stress.
Friday 24 April 2009 2.04pm
Just to be clear: the above was a response to the post by loannaflex.
Friday 24 April 2009 9.41pm
Whilst I might not be the most outgoing person in SE1 (probably out on one night a week and then either Fri or Sat in the area), reading this thread has made me realise that in two and a half years of living and going out in SE1, I don't recall ever noticing police on any of Tower Bridge Road, Bermondsey Street, Long Lane, BHS or the Cut at any time when I've been leaving a pub at closing time. Nor have I really had any problems (except for the occasional harassment on the Cut). I agree with the stance that throwing more police at more drunken revellers is not any kind of solution, but... is there really a problem with drunken violence in SE1?? Surely if this was the case I'd see more police out in force when I went out!
Friday 24 April 2009 10.08pm
If you look at James' earlier post he has a link to a map showing the areas around BHS and St George's circus are hotspots for the type of drunken violence you are talking about, which is one of the reasons the saturation zone is being considered.

It's not just violence though, we have a problem with drinkers using the local estates as toilets (and it's not just peeing!), we get a lot of broken glass and drink related litter on the streets and thrown into the garden, and there are large groups of loud drunken people wandering around. I find most drunks are OK, but I've had a number of unpleasant run ins with drinkers, they can be quite unpleasant if you ask them to move when they are filling the whole road.

There have been quite a few nasty fights on Isabella Street, I don't normally bother calling the police, and I'm sure other people are the same, so the real violence figure will be under reported (imho).
Friday 24 April 2009 10.17pm
As I was writing this I couldn't hear my TV, because the customers of Jacks Bar are singing so loudly, they've been shouting and screaming all evening, it's not even that warm tonight and lots of people are drinking outside, come summer the wall of noise we suffered tonight will be ten times worse, we can have a couple of hundred people in the road, even when they aren't singing and shouting they are noisy, just by talking and drinking. After several hours of constant noise I find I start to get very tense, particularly when they turn the music up, with a loud bass, I supose that's why it's called noise pollution.

This is why we need a saturation zone, and I hope other people around The Cut will give feedback on the consultation and ask Southwark not to forget that west of Blackfriars Road is part of Southwark!!
Friday 24 April 2009 10.34pm
After reading Zoe's posts above, it's clear that I'm not exposed to the majority of the issues being addressed in this post... so I'll return to my cocooned existance and let proper discussion of these issues continue...
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