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Anti-capitalism demo

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Sunday 5 April 2009 10.37pm
jonnyp42 said: I can't agree with this view, all people had to do was move on as directed. If they had done so there would have been no violence

If you had been present, you would have seen that it was impossible to move on - the police used the 'kettling' technique in which people are corralled in a space for many hours with no access to food or toilet facilities. (It happened to me earlier in the day.) Add to the mix snarling police dogs, being hit or threatened with truncheons and being otherwise threatened by riot police and you have the measure of it. It was completely disproportionate and I am not surprised it made demonstrators angry - it was designed to provoke.
Monday 6 April 2009 8.24am
sputnik wrote:
jonnyp42 said: I can't agree with this view, all people had to do was move on as directed. If they had done so there would have been no violence
If you had been present, you would have seen that it was impossible to move on - the police used the 'kettling' technique in which people are corralled in a space for many hours with no access to food or toilet facilities. (It happened to me earlier in the day.) Add to the mix snarling police dogs, being hit or threatened with truncheons and being otherwise threatened by riot police and you have the measure of it. It was completely disproportionate and I am not surprised it made demonstrators angry - it was designed to provoke.

I was present. 'Kettling' or containment tactics, are only used to prevent further disorder or in simple terms a Breach of the Peace. It's a common law power.

Basically once the RBS branch had been turned over the Police had little or no choice but to keep people there, if they'd have been released in one lot there would have almost certainly been disorder.

If you need any proof of what might have happened, those that were outside of the 'Kettle' give you an insight, as when told to disperse they engaged in running battles with the Police, within which bottles (plastic & glass) were thrown.. they were even tearing up plants and chucking those.

It's the 'Anarchist' element that spoilt what otherwise could have been a peaceful protest.

Here's the deal with lawful, peaceful, protest in a democracy...

a. you turn up somewhere, make your point and leave.

b. you march over a pre-defined route, rally at the end, thus making your point and leave.

At no point do you trash private property, cover walls in graffiti, attack police officers, bed down for the night on a major thoroughfare, cover your face with a mask or balaclava and you don't use inflammatory language like "burn the bankers" -- Maybe it's symbolism, but to me it sounds like an incitement to violence.
Monday 6 April 2009 8.36am
boroughpaul wrote:
the police have a job to do...to keep the streets safe for the vast majority. sometimes that involves upsetting the tiny minority who go on protests. too bad

Your fascist views are always hilarious.
Monday 6 April 2009 8.39am
Did the cctv get the picture of the person who threw a molotov cocktail at a policemans head?
Monday 6 April 2009 10.26am
beetroot wrote:
boroughpaul wrote:
the police have a job to do...to keep the streets safe for the vast majority. sometimes that involves upsetting the tiny minority who go on protests. too bad

Your fascist views are always hilarious.

This is a local forum, not a students' socialist society meeting or a slogan shout.
Monday 6 April 2009 10.34am
I lost sympathy with the protesters as soon as violence was used.

Everyone has a right to protest in this country (thank God), but with that right comes responsibility. This responsibility is to protest peacefully. It was abused.

The story is now about the violence rather than the issues.

Throwing bottles at medics trying to save a dying man? It's disgusting.
Monday 6 April 2009 10.41am
Hear hear. Fascism promotes a dictatorial nationalist state. Boroughpaul did not advocate anything of the sort.

What are you going to call a real fascist, should you come across one?
Monday 6 April 2009 11.00am
I started this thread because I was interested in what people had seen. Discussion of the police response is inevitable and worthwhile - and I'm quite prepared to believe that this response may have been heavy-handed. Calling people toxic names isn't appropriate, though.

It's remarkable how often the word "fascist" is bandied about, usually at the expense of people who are politically and socially conservative (note the small "c"). It's also noticeable how quick some of the champions of free expression are to stamp on those whose views are at odds with theirs.
Monday 6 April 2009 11.00am
MonnowRoader wrote:
I lost sympathy with the protesters as soon as violence was used.

I wasnt there and havent been following the coverage closely but surely only a tiny minority of protestors were violent?

MonnowRoader wrote:
Throwing bottles at medics trying to save a dying man? It's disgusting.

Did this actually happen though?
Monday 6 April 2009 11.43am
Neil - yes I believe it did happen. I don't believe anyone disputes it, not the protesters and not the police.

Re the minority - yes its a shame that the few spoilt it for the many.

Could the majority have done more to prevent the minority? Perhaps they could / should have. I've been on demo's when we used peer pressure to stop similar actions. Shouts of NO NO NO and NOT IN MY NAME tend to have an effect.
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