London SE1 community website

Anti-capitalism demo

Join in these discussions today! Log in or register.
Current: 9 of 15
Thursday 9 April 2009 8.51am
I think we should be a bit more careful about tarnishing the entire police force over the actions of a few individuals.
Thursday 9 April 2009 9.10am
beetroot wrote:
AndyABC wrote:
At another demonstration, a policeman was seen helping a woman back onto a bike, but that was brushed under the carpet too. Tricky to get the Balance here, isn't it?

It doesn't matter how many good deeds are done. It doesn't make the bad behaviour any more acceptable.

This isn't aimed at you, Andy, but there are people that obviously can't accept the reality of the police for whatever reason and maybe more disturbingly, there are people who do accept it as long as its not aimed at them.

Yes Beetroot, but unlike yourself some people are merely arguing that there are more good apples in the barrel than there are bad ones!
Thursday 9 April 2009 9.14am
palerider wrote:
I should apologise, of course we don't live in a police state - it's only in police states that the police raid the offices of opposition politicians, beat up demonstrators, and gun people down on the streets with impunity. It's only in police states that your every move from birth to death is tracked by government databases, that your listed as a suspect on police records and your DNA stored even if you've committed no crime, that you can be locked or have your liberty curtailed without a trial, or that trials are held in secret. Of course none of these things would ever happen here.

Well you get what you vote for (or didn't as the case maybe), who would ever thought that a party who's roots are within the Labour movement would launch such a concerted and successful attack on civil liberties.

Nu-Labour makes the Tories look positively libertarian these days. I guess I shouldn't say any more as my ISP is of course logging my presence here...
Thursday 9 April 2009 12.46pm
AndyABC wrote:
I think we should be a bit more careful about tarnishing the entire police force over the actions of a few individuals.

What I witnessed at the demo was not the actions of a few 'bad' individuals within the police force. It was a force, ie the police en masse, acting as a unit according to pre-agreed methods. Their strategy and tactics had been designed in advance, as they stated in the press before the demo.

These methods turned out to be disproportionate and unnecessarily violent, as is now being exposed in the media.
Thursday 9 April 2009 1.53pm
sputnik wrote:
AndyABC wrote:
I think we should be a bit more careful about tarnishing the entire police force over the actions of a few individuals.

What I witnessed at the demo was not the actions of a few 'bad' individuals within the police force. It was a force, ie the police en masse, acting as a unit according to pre-agreed methods. Their strategy and tactics had been designed in advance, as they stated in the press before the demo.

These methods turned out to be disproportionate and unnecessarily violent, as is now being exposed in the media.

By that same token what I saw was groups of people that were running around with their faces covered...



- I also saw people scrawling graffiti on buildings,
- I saw a group of people attack the RBS branch
- I heard inflammatory language that was an incitement to violence.
- I saw people pushing and shoving
- I saw people launch unprovoked attacks on Police officers (who were not in riot gear), just because they tried to maintain some basic form of control over the crowd for the purposes of everyone's safety
- I saw a group of people decide that they were going to block a central London road and turn it in to a camp site.

We all 'see' things...
Thursday 9 April 2009 2.32pm
jonnyp42 wrote:
palerider wrote:
I should apologise, of course we don't live in a police state - it's only in police states that the police raid the offices of opposition politicians, beat up demonstrators, and gun people down on the streets with impunity. It's only in police states that your every move from birth to death is tracked by government databases, that your listed as a suspect on police records and your DNA stored even if you've committed no crime, that you can be locked or have your liberty curtailed without a trial, or that trials are held in secret. Of course none of these things would ever happen here.

Well you get what you vote for (or didn't as the case maybe), who would ever thought that a party who's roots are within the Labour movement would launch such a concerted and successful attack on civil liberties.

Nu-Labour makes the Tories look positively libertarian these days. I guess I shouldn't say any more as my ISP is of course logging my presence here...
A police state where:
+You can assert your anti-police theories without risking Room 101;
+The Chief of Police, Ian Blair, and his boss was/is subject to daily criticism and ridicule in all the mass media;
+The Menezes killing was subject to public enquiry and heavy critique in all the mass media;
+The head of counter-terrorism (who was in charge of the outrageous Damian Green operation) today resigned for inadvertently revealing security documents;
+The death of a bystander at the recent demo is subject to instant anti-police judgement from those who simply can't know what's what.

And so on. One day you may live in a police state, but you'll lack the words to name it. You'll have wasted them on hyperbole. Were there a police state here, the chances are it would have arisen from a mobocracy. Right now the risk of an authoritarian state is embodied on the curtailment of free speech all of which arises from the pc left to which the activists on the demo probably subscribe.
Thursday 9 April 2009 2.58pm
Not sure if I can do this under this thread, but can I broaden this discussion out a bit? This is a serious question: how does the UK rank, among "Western" countries, in terms of free speech, police brutality etc? Is it substantially worse here than elsewhere?
Thursday 9 April 2009 3.22pm
I am not sure about rankings and don't know if there are any out there, but have seen a noted upswing in Holland in violence against public services such as bus drivers and emergency staff (e.g. ambulance drivers).

On the other hand these issues appear somewhat isolated to certain areas of the country. Speech is still free, and although PCness (if that is a word at all) is addressed, it does not appear to be as far fetched as here. However, given that I live here and no longer there, my views might of course be slightly coloured.
Thursday 9 April 2009 3.52pm
markadams99 wrote:
+The Menezes killing was subject to public enquiry and heavy critique in all the mass media;

Though no charges for the individuals involved or even, it seems, disciplinary action for giving evidence that could not really be described as 100% honest.

That said I agree that it's a complete exaggeration to call the Britain of today a police state.
Current: 9 of 15

To post a message, please log in or register..
We are part of
Independent Community News Network
Email newsletter

For the latest local news and events direct to your inbox every Monday, you need our weekly email newsletter SE1 Direct.

7,000+ locals read it every week. Can you afford to miss out?

Read the latest issue before signing up

Also on the forum
Views expressed in this discussion forum are those of the contributors and may not reflect the editorial policy of this website. Please read our terms and conditions