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LibDems being creative!

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Wednesday 12 August 2009 3.07pm
The origin on an axis is the zero point, sorry if that wasn't clear.
Wednesday 12 August 2009 7.04pm
My one memory from A level sociology.. the teacher saying 'statistics are like a bikini, what they reveal is interesting, but what they conceal is vital'. Not sure I agree completely, but its an interesting saying.
Wednesday 12 August 2009 8.18pm
Firstly, this thread is so political I can imagine that the Hatts admins will want to stop it. I would support that.

But, well it's not difficult really, is it? Simon Hughes has won here in Bermondsey for the past 26 years. Only Labour have challenged and lost (7 times).

But if you live here in SE1, particularly if you are new to the area, and only have a national view of how Labour are messing up versus the Conservatives who "must be better because they have been in the wilderness and have shaped up"... well you might be tempted to think that a conservative vote might be worthwhile. That's a view that Conservative and bizarelly Labour are keen to encourage - and the message and riposte that the LibDem leaflets try to convey is simple:

- the conservatives won't win here
- the LibDems are in a coaltion with the conservatives on the council until we get an absolute majority
AND - every vote for the conservatives here could be better used to keep labour out by voting LibDem - as to keep Labour out given that the majority in Chaucer (for example) was only 7 above Labour is needed. It is obvious to suggest that loal people should vote tactically.

All political parties' leaflets will pick the most recent favourable results whether it's a national, london, local, by-election or nearby result.

The Tories loved last year's Boris vote as it was Boris v Ken and people polarised across two parties, but if the national election is on the same day as the 2010 local elections the Simon factor really kicks in. Everyone knows someone who has been helped by Simon Hughes and he is the most fantastic local MP.

So. If this post is deleted I accept that the SE1 website is not the place to campaign on party politics but equally the posts earlier cannot remain unanswered.



Cllr Tim McNally
LibDem Member for Chaucer Ward
Executive Member for Resources
Wednesday 12 August 2009 8.29pm
timmcn wrote:
Firstly, this thread is so political I can imagine that the Hatts admins will want to stop it.

I don't understand.
Wednesday 12 August 2009 8.48pm
Neither do I. Rambling?
I have always voted for Simon Hughes and even voted for Brian Paddick for mayor so it wasn't an anti LibDems post.
And Tim you didn't address the bar chart from FOCUS which gave a misleading visual impression of the election results.
Wednesday 12 August 2009 8.54pm
I'm a bit puzzled by Tim's comment too.

I don't hold with the idea that 'party politics' must somehow be conducted in a distinct compartment set apart from other aspects of life.

phoney posed a perfectly reasonable question, and people have mostly replied in a variety of interesting, thoughtful or amusing ways.

I don't think Loanna's attempt to dredge up the 1983 by-election is helpful, but apart from that, where's the problem?

Am I missing something?

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Wednesday 12 August 2009 9.23pm
I think a thread critisising the lib dems in the title (right or wrongly, I've been impressed by the maths being discussed, but couldn't really follow the whole X + Y axis stuff) is going to upset members of the Liberals, as it would Labour & Tory members. Parties should also be able to defend themselves from critisism, I'm sure I'd feel the same way if it was me.

I think it's reasonable to assume that someone who starts a thread about a particular political party is going to be accused of party politics, even when it's along the lines of what Phoney did. If I said Phoney was a member of the Tory party, you would probably see his post in a different way, thinking he was trying to promote voting Tory under the guise of legitimate critisism.

I'm not saying Phoney is a member of the Tory party, btw, it was just an example!! I wish he would help me with my stats though.
Thursday 13 August 2009 9.39am
I sympathise somewhat with what Tim has to say. Locally it is very much a case of Lib Dem V Labour in most seats (whether general election, most local election wards, London Assembly seat). And because they are often frozen out of national media coverage and very disadvantaged by the voting system they have to keep on repeating the message that they can win here to people (especially those that move in to the area and may not have lived somewhere with a Lib Dem MP).

I still think that message can be delivered without distorting the graphs representing the past election results though.

And if that leaflet was delivered constituency wide it will also have been delivered in places where the Tories can win (local election seats at least) and where it is Lib Dem V Tory rather than Lib Dem V Labour and so it could be very misleading to newcomers to those areas for example.

I think it's useful for non-political-activists to see a little of the process that goes into campaigning for their votes but I doubt anyone thinks this is a scandal or anything.
Friday 14 August 2009 9.25am
zoe - the graph would be meaningless without the added information of the numbers involved, as the heights of the bars visually give a different impression than the actual numbers, so something was probably done to make it look like that. Either the scale of the y axis might not be linear (ie a set distance at the bottom of the graph might not equal the same amount as the same set distance at the top of the graph) or alternatively not all the graph is shown (ie the value at the bottom of the graph is not zero, maybe it starts at 5000)

I hope that helps.

I personally have voted for the person I thought best suited my needs at the level required, so I haven't necessarily voted for the same party at local or national levels.
Monday 17 August 2009 7.54pm
what about some pro Green stats

their parliamentary candidate is Amanda Penfold
"Last year she stood as a Green Party candidate for Southwark Council in Chaucer ward, receiving 429 votes, ahead of all three Conservative candidates."
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