Listen mate. Nothing gives YOU the right to speak up for "locals". I am a local and you don't know me or how long I've been here or anyone else for that matter. You just make fascist assumptions. You may be from out of town for all I know but you know what? I couldn't give a monkeys. All that matters are the rights and wrongs of the issues of the day. You don't need a qualifying period to have an opinion. If my old lady can't get her wheelchair into the tube station because of some bulls*** business all over the pavement then that's a problem that needs to be sorted. Do you understand?
I didnt say I spoke for any body else who posts on here. As you say spacemaker you may not be a real local only you know. The facts are this pure and simple. What gives a load cyber bods the right to sit on here knocking things that go on, at legitimate businesses in this area because they dont like that particular genre. Then when the same issues are raised at another business in which the cyber bods wannabes love they all say oh no that is a lovely old quaint South Londony thing so dont say a word beacause its twendy?
I am entitled to my opinion even if you dont want to hear it.
Oh and spacemaker a bit less of the mate!
In my opinion it is not how long you have lived here, nor what social class, colour of skin, gender age, you are etc or even if they do or do not use computers and post on community web sites. What makes you a real local is much more to do with how much you care for the area in which you live.
Some people may be a real SE1 locals for only a year or two, others for many years and indeed maybe even for many generations past and future. But if they care for the area and get involved with the community then to my mind they are just as "Real" as anyone.
As for my opinion on the topic of this thread the queues out side these two attractions can be a nuisance but i would not like to see any local business punished for being successful. However if the nuisance can be controlled better then it should and if someone local or otherwise feel that it is not being managed properly the are perfectly entitled to bring it to the attention of the appropriate authorities.
It seems clear to me that it is the LBE that is the cheeky new boy using loud and aggressive marketing techniques in the street. The crowds have been around the station for many years and the only significant change is the loud LBE stage show and really annoying leaflet people standing in areas the LD tries to keep clear for passers by. The tunnel under the bridge with it's amplified TV blaring the LBE to everyone is tackier than the sex club that used to be there! I have no idea what Southwark planning are up to in ignoring such blatant contraventions of the planning laws re advertising, perhaps someone wiser here will know their reasons.
As far as I know none of the pubs mentioned has an outdoor stage show, amplified outdoor music and speech or aggressive marketeers, only happy punters of every social class as far as I can see.
I was in the London Bridge area on Saturday night (you might have seen me, I was in fancy dress) and didn't see intolerable levels of anti-social behaviour either when I arrived at 10pm, or when I left at 2am(ish).
I did see large queues of well-behaved people, not blocking pavements, waiting to get into Shunt and the Dungeons, and a group of pirates in an upstairs room at the Shipwrights Arms (nb Why are pirates called 'pirates'?). I spent several hours at the Southwark Playhouse's bash, which was excellent, and then walked home.
At no point did I see anything other than people up for a night out, spending money, creating jobs, supporting local organisations, and generally enjoying themselves.
Frankly, you could see more anti-social behaviour on any Saturday night out in a provincial market town.
Real-SE1 - Precisely what anti-social behaviour did you see? Times, descriptions and locations, please. Otherwise, it looks like you are indulging in an unfocussed and generalised rant.
Finally, from my limited reading of the history of the area, local venues weren't entirely devoid of killings and aggro in the 'old days' when South London was a dingy proletarian ghetto run by the Richardsons and their mates. Or is that sort of anti-social behaviour OK because it's "authentic".
Jerry You seem to know a lot about planning and London Bridge! There are many issues that members of the public could raise in the area around LD and LBE. There is a premises that will remain nameless that goes under the guise of being a lovely little place to have corporate meetings and the like but in actual fact holds parties most weekends for all the happy punters (they normally are after 6 pints) far past its permitted licensing hours of midnight.
Now my point is this. If other businesses say LD cause offence some people on here up to say 6pm (when most people are not sleeping and the ambient noise levels are quite high) Then why do you not say anything about the many other planning problems involving late night establishments.
You also state that sex club was less tackier than LBE? Obviously you have some weird fetish that I dont want to know about.
If you asked the Dungeons nicely they might let you be chained up!!
Mmm real-se1, I think you perhaps you do protest too much. Do you spend more time in the real parts of SE1 others might fear to tread. The "Fort" springs to mind, no, no, I apologise to the SE1 list, I have descended to real-se1's level of personal abuse.
This is quite a serious thread and it has been interesting to see that some support the type of activity outside the station and some clearly don't. I'm of the opinion that the queues are inevitable and LD does make a stab at controlling them, on the other hand the LBE seems to have a more laissez-faire (sorry real-se1, I mean less interfering) approach to the crowds. I prefer the LD approach.
Jerry I drank in the fort when it was a busy pub. Always seems closed when I go by now. What happens in there now then? Watch how you answer as if its a bit dodgy and you are aware of it , then why have you not got a petition to stop it?
You think I would not understand that word and you know what I didnt (thanks for the telling me) I only went to a comprehensive in Southwark.
What I do know is that you have got issues with LBE in particular and you know what to do dont you? Go and tell the people who own it. (I spoke to them last week and they are nice guys)
Put your mac on (you do have one i hope)and go down and tell them how you feel. Tell them they are upsetting you. That is what I would do if I had issues. Not stir up trouble and hide. I thought this thread was about both attractions now its just LBE.
Your true colours are coming out!
Rambling Phil The places with anti social behaviour are all around London Bridge. People park everywhere and block the roads and pavements and there were loads of drunks walking along with fake paint and horror costumes scaring people!! (Its not only LD & LBE is it? No its you when your on the turps)
Real-se1 I think your views are as valid as anyone on this forum but I am getting a bit fed up with your personal insults that you seem to throw at anyone who disagrees with you. This is usually a friendly forum even if we do not all agree with each other, please keep it that way