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Elephant and Castle Shopping Centre to endure

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Thursday 10 February 2011 11.45am
To be honest, while Waitrose is just being used as an example, I think most would be simply be happy with anything other than another Tesco!
Thursday 10 February 2011 11.47am
There is an endless supply of Costcutters to choose from. Am I the only one to think just having a Tesco round the corner feels like an improvement?
Thursday 10 February 2011 11.52am
Elephant has got plenty of potential to up it's game - look at it as part of the wider area - there's ample historic streets ripe for improvement in SE1, and once the Heygate comes down there will be several thousand new residents, new shopping, new leisure facilities...

In the location, at the right price, I honestly think it can't fail to be successful. At the bottom line all you need to so build some decent flats and ensure there are places for people to open businesses - bring the demand and everything else will follow.

The 'Elephant and castle' bit of street between the centre and the Tab is always going to be a bit of a motorway/car park but that shouldn't prevent the area from being lifted as a whole.

The Angel comparison is a good one - complete with nasty road junction at it's centre - Kennington/Elephant/Borough/North Lambeth can aspire to something similar.
Thursday 10 February 2011 3.02pm
jamesup wrote:
Elephant has got plenty of potential to up it's game.... once the Heygate comes down there will be several thousand new residents, new shopping, new leisure facilities...

And the older residents? Where do they figure in these grand plans? These questions are never really asked in relation to the euphemism floated here by BobCourt of 'balancing the social mix' by bringing in 'a wider range of social status'. What we are talking about is people that live here now who are being displaced by the regeneration so far.

"Terry Redpath, who moved in when the Heygate was built in 1974, said: "People took pride in the place and there was a community spirit. It wasn't badly designed and there was plenty of open space."

Redpath says he and the other 130 leaseholders were offered less than a fair price for their properties, but felt they had little alternative but to accept as the estate was being run down in preparation for demolition.

"We were picked off one by one," he said, "In the last four to five years things weren't being fixed, and people did not want to be the last ones out."

And:

"What sticks in my throat is that when redevelopment has happened 1,200 local residents will have made way for people paying 400,000 on the footprint of the estate,"

From one of the better articles about the Heygate:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/feb/07/heygate-estate-demolition-regeneration

My suggestion is that we also Balance the mix in Dulwich Village.
Thursday 10 February 2011 3.55pm
Merlin Rouge wrote:
My suggestion is that we also Balance the mix in Dulwich Village.

Quite right. I was there the other day and needed to send some money home. Couldn't find anywhere.

...if you press it, they will come.
Thursday 10 February 2011 11.51pm
jamesup wrote:
Elephant has got plenty of potential to up it's game - look at it as part of the wider area - there's ample historic streets ripe for improvement in SE1, and once the Heygate comes down there will be several thousand new residents, new shopping, new leisure facilities...

In the location, at the right price, I honestly think it can't fail to be successful. At the bottom line all you need to so build some decent flats and ensure there are places for people to open businesses - bring the demand and everything else will follow.

The Angel comparison is a good one - complete with nasty road junction at it's centre - Kennington/Elephant/Borough/North Lambeth can aspire to something similar.

I'm not sure the Angel/Islington comparison is a good one, actually. While the junction immediately adjacent to Angel tube station isn't terribly attractive (although still moreso than E&C), the rest of Upper Street and the streets and squares off it (on either side) have a townscape merit, and are of an architectural calibre and character, that E&C lacks. If I were to glimpse a rundown 1970s version of Islington and compare it to present-day E&C, I know which one I'd place bets on becoming gentrified first and most.

That's not to say I don't think E&C can't indeed, as you say, raise its game and become successful in its own right. I just think we should be realistic: it's never gonna be a posh part of town, and given how many such areas already exist in central London, my view is that we shouldn't wish it to be.

(By the way, I'd say Kennington's another kettle of fish altogether.)
Friday 11 February 2011 10.57am
The outrageous idea that a whole lot of "new people" are the answer to the E&C is one of the quite shocking examples of abuse of the Heygate tenants. They WERE the Elephant, and the Regeneration was meant to be not least FOR THEM. That the Council and the Developers (and, of course The Crunch - easy to blame for everything) have managed to move the goal posts little by little is a disgusting. If one wants a mixed community - and I'm entirely in favour of that - then sneakily getting rid of all the original residents by chucking them out of their flats with grand promises of new ones, which - surprise, surprise - never materialise, is no way for any kind of honourable society to behave. I know I sound like "Disgusted of Tonbridge Wells (or E&C)" but I truly am. I consider that the parties involved in the Regeneration project have behaved without conscience or morality and have blighted the lives of a lot of people who had no redress and did not deserve it.
Friday 11 February 2011 11.01am
Angle junction is a lot nicer now, but it was due to be part of the same inner london motorway system that the elephant - they just got further down here.

Islington has no doubt more period stock, but there's a bit about - it'll be more flats than town houses, but the location's appeal to anyone who values their time highly and wants access to West End, City and Westminster is undeniable.
Saturday 12 February 2011 12.46pm
bobcourt wrote:
By improving retail, leisure facilities and public open space. This will attract people to the area from a wider range of social status, and at the same time, improve the area for existing residents. Not so bad is it?

When the Waitrose finally comes to The Elephant, if I shop there will my social status go up a bit?
Saturday 12 February 2011 1.36pm
Perhaps 'status' was the wrong word to use, but I'm sure you knew what I meant. No need to interpret it in such a negative way. And no, your social 'status' won't go up, it'll just mean that like me, while you do the bulk of your shopping for everyday items in cheaper supermarkets, every now and then if you need something for a special occasion, you'll have that as an option, or at least a wider choice.

There seems to be a common theme here that regeneration = bad. The regeneration/gentrification of E&C, and the treatment of existing residents should be considered to be two completely different things. Just because the council have made a pigs ear of this one, we shouldn't necessarily consider regeneration as negative in general. Times change, places change, and as many Heygate residents have pointed out (in articles linked to from this forum), the place USED to be a good place to live, and USED to have a community but this is no longer the case according to them. Even if people weren't displaced, time does a great job of changing the community anyway.

As for people being asked to leave their homes, well, if you're renting a property, privately or socially and the landlord gives you notice, then you have to leave. Private renters are worse off because they're only guaranteed a 6-12 month stay in a given property!
I do understand that there are a handful of leaseholders in the Heygate that are being offered prices that are below the market rate. This is a completely different matter, and I agree that this is appalling. I do sympathise with them and I hope that they continue to fight their cases.

Referring to your previous statement about suggesting we should increase the social mix in Dulwich Village: I had a look the police.uk website, and the crime figures indicate that we should leave Dulwich village alone, and focus on improving Elephant and Castle.
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