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Saturday 31 March 2012 10.00pm
Oh and how do you get to be trustee exactly? Because a good friend of mine was interested a few years ago after a couple of stallholders suggested it to him but he was excluded because he lived too far away (less than 1/2 a mile) how does this work when the current trustees don't even seem to live in England to any great extent?
Monday 2 April 2012 4.33pm
JC2

Yes, agree and at least provenance and freshness is guaranteed.

Davies, the Borough Market website dies not even tell one who the Chair of the Trustees is, so I imagine that it is some sort of masonic need to know basis where Trustees are chosen through their links with others on the Board. One can only assume this to be so due to the distinct lack of information available on the matter. Bizarrely, other organisation where the Trustees are on their Board or employed, have better managed websites which are far more transparent.
Monday 2 April 2012 6.31pm
damc wrote:
One can only assume this to be so due to the distinct lack of information available on the matter. Bizarrely, other organisation where the Trustees are on their Board or employed, have better managed websites which are far more transparent.

Info about who the trustees are and accounts etc., can be found on the Charity Commission website - just search for 'Borough Market'. However, I'm not sure how reliable the info is. For example, it suggests Ms McGibbon is not involved with other charities, yet she is listed as being a Trustee of United St Saviours on the same website. (I'm not suggesting there is anything sinister in that mistake).

Afaik, trustees do not have to be local residents any more. I think that rule changed some years ago.
Monday 2 April 2012 6.51pm
Just to add to the above, the BM website has far more info on each trustee than the CC website, despite not expressly stating that Hyslop is Chair.

damc, if you want to know how trustees are chosen or nominated in the first place, why not contact them?
Tuesday 3 April 2012 8.32am
I have just looked at the information at the website again and it does very clearly state that Donald Hyslop is the Chair of Better Bankside on the Borough Market website. Strange that it omits the fact the he is the Chair of Borough Market on their own website. After some searching, SE1 refers to David Lyon as beng Vice-Chair but that is not so according to the Borough Market website.

As for Camilla Mcgibbon, not sure how she left the Board as Chair at some point and then miraculously returned as Trustee. According to the Charity Commission and Southwark Council, both she hand her husband (between them), have served as Trustees for more than 15 years. Would be interesting to know what happened to Borough Market over that 15 year period. The catastrophes which they oversaw. Mcgibbon was also Vice Chair at some point according to an older article (but not sure if this is correct). Ludicrous really. Again, that Mcgibbon serves on the Board of another big landlord in the area must surely be a conflict of of interest. Yes, I know I have said this before. Both Camilla Mcgibbon and Donald Hyslop serves some committee at the Tate Modern (looks as if this was before Donald Hyslop joined the Borough Market Board). Camilla Mcgibbon and Celia Palmer appear to be neighbours. Glaringly obvious how one gets to be Trustee!

Not sinister,I agree but one has to question how the Board works in the interests of Borough Market when they all appear to be in each others pockets.

Not sure if the facts speaks for themselves.
Tuesday 3 April 2012 8.57am
The latest pick and mix message at the front end of Stoney Street tells us all we need to know about the recycling policy (see the bags)and Borough Market messaging to customers. The PR department obviously doesn't work with Traders! What happened to brown reusable bags and proper market trader selling language. Philip Crouch did mention that the management of Traders stalls should be prioritised. I think he mentioned that this an area David Machette is overseeing as the Development manager.

Anyhow not to go off the point or anything.
Thursday 5 April 2012 11.27am
I've not been watching this thread particularly closely but some concerns have been raised.

Please could I put out a reminder that the trustees of the various bodies under discussion here are real people and, whilst if they put themselves forward as custodians of important local assets (eg the market, the charity) they should expect some public scrutiny and accountability, posters here should avoid making casual allegations or insinuations.

It's not practical to do a line-by-line fact-check of everything that's been said here, and I don't want to have to start removing posts or putting special restrictions on market-related discussions again.

That's not to say that the market in particular couldn't do a better job of making its governance arrangements transparent and less susceptible to misinterpretation.

IMHO the market is streets ahead of where it was a year ago in terms of communication but there is more to do.

Editor of the London SE1 website.
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Thursday 19 April 2012 8.43am
I have been away and am sorry to see the post come to a grinding halt. Then again I was probably the only one writing! Boring as it may be.

I can only assume that the intervention is on behalf of Trustees. It is a pity that the Trustees have chosen to hide behind the Editor. Apologies if this is not so. I have seen local councillors reply and debate within this forum and cannot understand why Borough Market is above it all. I can only conclude that the facts as written in black and white does not make Trustees feel comfortable. If they draw no comfort from it, how can we. Their lack of clarity and transparency doesn't help. Board members of any organisation are 'real' people and one hopes acts in the best interest of the organisations they serve. Unfortunately, based on what I have read and the history of some of these Trustees and the decline of the Market whilst they have been in charge, tells me that ego and self interest is the driving force. Camilla Mcgibbon, would not have served as Chair and Vice Chair and made a return as Trustee on any Board (as a governance matter, of course). Trustees would not be servicing a Board ten years on either. The fundamental question is who are they accountable to? The perception is that we are not allowed to question or have an opinion.

I see there are some interesting developements at the old tea shop in Park Street. Another tourist attraction by all accounts. Their website claims they attract tourists and residents. I would hazard a guess that tourists have deeper pockets than residents! Maltby Street and the environs can attract such interesting new businesses, why can't Borough Market. David Machette is the person in charge of development, can he not do better than cakes, cheese, sweets and ice-cream, as told to me by favourite trader.

Bye for now and I hope that I have not caused any offence.
Thursday 19 April 2012 10.04am
damc wrote:
I can only assume that the intervention is on behalf of Trustees. It is a pity that the Trustees have chosen to hide behind the Editor. Apologies if this is not so.

I see there are some interesting developements at the old tea shop in Park Street. Another tourist attraction by all accounts. Their website claims they attract tourists and residents. Maltby Street and the environs can attract such interesting new businesses, why can't Borough Market. David Machette is the person in charge of development, can he not do better than cakes, cheese, sweets and ice-cream, as told to me by favourite trader.

Bye for now and I hope that I have not caused any offence.

Certainly the trustees do themselves and the market no favours with their odd brand of PR, but it is rather disingenuous of you to make those accusations then excuse yourself in advance, as if that validates you doing so.

The new ice-cream shop on Park St is (I understand) being set up by some existing BM traders. It has required a huge investment towards paying the (by all accounts large) deposit and rental demands, as well as the fit-out. No doubt, the fact that the unit's rent is high was a factor in it staying empty for so long. The tourist genie is out of the bottle for the whole area, their customers will be tourists and locals alike. However, I for one would rather have a viable food related business there than a blank shop front. As you say an 'interesting development'.

The comment from your 'favourite trader' almost smacks of jealousy, but frankly it's no different from a lot of the gossipy back-biting comments typical of some traders about others. It seems traders will never be able to present a united front.

Out of interest, since you contradict yourself, what are the 'interesting new businesses' at Maltby that you crave appearing at BM?
Friday 20 April 2012 1.08pm
Happy to be set straight if the Trustees had not asked the Editor to intervene on their behalf.

I include some links to back my comments on the fundamental issue of public accountability, particularly aound Trustee terms and appointments. This is factual information to reinforce what was previously said. 

http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends40%5C0001076940_AC_20050331_E_C.pdf
http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends40%5C0001076940_AC_20060331_E_C.PDF
http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends40%5C0001076940_ac_20070331_e_c.pdf
http://moderngov.southwarksites.com/Data/Council%20Assembly/20040331/Agenda/7%20-%20Appointment%20of%20Trusteesto%20the%20Borough%20Market,%20Southwark.pdf

You are correct when you state that tourism is not something we can escape in the area.  However, if according to this link (not found on the Borough Market website, which is strange since it is such a prominent public positioning), then It would appear that Borough Market is setting itself up as a tourist destination.  I find this disconcerting because I do not want a Covent Garden or Camden Market on my doorstep.   I do want a Market where I can shop for raw ingredients.  If Borough Market chooses to go further down the 'attract tourism' path, they will continue to lose customers to other local Markets.  I am a die hard Borough Market shopper and I   am losing faith.
http://ourbirmingham.org/?cat=22

Also, if Cammilla Mcgibbon as Vice-chair of USS, is determined that properties in Park Street are not to be used as restaurants, where does it leave Borough Market in terms of people walking or standing around and munching.  The reason it may be have been hard to fill that space could be that retailers cannot afford to pay rents that restauranteurs would be prepared to pay.  You may be right in that it is a trader initiative, but this has not been made very clear by Borough Market or their window display.  It clearly states that it is a business from Rimini and their website does not state that they already trade at the Market.  

As for Maltby Street and its environs, Pizarro, Wallace, the Brewery, the Bakery and the Wine Bar at No. 40 are all interesting businesses.  The Maltby Street thread on this forum and the website of traders like Ham and Cheese infers that they are actively advertising and searching for Traders and that they believe it will be a 50 strong producer market at some point.  Is the intention that they will become a fresh food market and Borough Market a street food market.  Might it lead to an exodus of Borough Market producers to that area whilst continuing to sell their take-away at Borough Market.  A way of balancing the needs of the tourist and the ingredient shopper to maintain a viable business.  Let's face it Borough Market cannot sustain producers or so many of them would not be doing mainly take-away.  Others are just retail traders who buy to sell ( long shelf life etc).   Merely making a point and not criticising.   Could Maltby Street be the new supermarket alternative.  

The trader I referred to sells ingredients and does not service the tourist customer base, so it may be concern for his little business rather than jealousy,  I suspect.

Have a great weekend.
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