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Sick of all the push bikers jumping lights on Borough High St

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Friday 18 May 2012 12.17pm
beetroot wrote:
Why do thick people insist on believing in the existence of road rax?
lol nasty !!
Friday 18 May 2012 12.30pm
I have to agree with Mr Woodward. As a cyclist I have to be far more vigilant than most other road users because I am so much more vulnerable, so instead of speeding over a crossing where my view is obscured I actually slow down to check if there is anything coming.. some of the less responsible cyclists out there think they can behave in the same way as a car (apart from when it suits them not to), but they can't. Also it always seems to be the slowest people who run the lights as I generally pass them later... tutting loudly :)
Friday 18 May 2012 12.39pm
[quote nickyd][quote jamesup]
ok smarty pants i'm just trying to making a point that if it was me that knocked a little girl off her feet as she was on a crossing i would be tracked down 'BY MY NUMBER PLATE' an covered by cost 'insurence'(god forbid may that NEVER happen) an also having to pay the price set out by the law 'careless driving'[/quote]

But if it was you in your car that hit the little girl then chances are the consequences would be far worse.

I can fully understand people being angry at cyclists who jump lights and when a little girl or anyone is hurt as a consequence then even more so. However what I dont understand is why this is frequently a topic that people vent their anger/frustration on this forum and yet no one seems to complain on here with the same regularity about drivers who jump red lights, use mobile phones etc. When these actions cause injury the consequence is far worse yet we are not up in arms about it. Is only because driver pay and cyclist dont?
Friday 18 May 2012 12.42pm
boroughpaul wrote:
Agreed that many BorisBikers are damned near suicidal but Guy's street's point about paying ("nobody else does") is completely wrong...drivers pay road tax, congestion charge and ridiculously high taxes on fuel.Cyclists pay nothing...that being the case some common sense and obedience to the laws of the road isnt much to ask for is it?
As has been covered already in the discussion:

Road tax doesn't exist - nobody pays it.

Congestion charge is to reduce congestion on the roads - a problem caused by cars and vans, not bikes.

Petrol/diesel pollutes - taxation on this seems fair. My bike doesn't use fuel, so there's no tax to pay because I'm not consuming something. I pay VAT if I need to buy new parts for my bike - does that count?

You're absolutely correct that a bit of common sense is not to much to ask, but paying various taxes doesn't and shouldn't exempt any person from using common sense.
Friday 18 May 2012 1.23pm
james127 wrote:
Cyclists should be allowed to run red lights when it's safe for them to do so -- that's the law in Paris. ...
I'd be in favour of this, IF:

- all cyclists had to have 3rd party insurance, and;
- the presumption in any accident where a cyclist has run a red light is that they are to blame.

Cycling should be encouraged. I'm happy for bikes to have priority over cars in cities, and often it serves no purpose to stop cycles at traffic lights, BUT I think that pedestrians should have absolute priority over everything else (so I'd be OK with cycles jumping red lights, but not if there's a pedestrian about to cross).

In some US states, cars can turn right (our equivalent of left, of course) on red lights if there's nothing coming. It might be interesting to have a look at how that would work (although there's almost never a time when I'm on the road in London and there's no other traffic!).

...if you press it, they will come.
Friday 18 May 2012 1.25pm
I cycle a lot too, and it just so happens that I don't have a car. But let's not forget that many people who cycle do pay what-I've-always-called-road-tax-even-if-not -technically-correct as they also have a car. That a cyclist doesn't stop and runs into a girl on a pedestrian crossing is inexcusable and as is clear here - a bad example. Did the cyclist just ride off without stopping? There are bad cyclists just as there are bad drivers. I am like many here in favour of generally obeying the rules of the road when on my bike, but there are exceptions and I admit that yesterday - heaven forbid - I jumped a light (not at speed mind you!) at Borough High Street (not the junction you talk about). I do do this occasionally (and no that is not a euphemism for frequently!). Why do I? It is usually to do with what I consider safest. If I feel that the cars behind me are reving their engines/likely to behave unpredictably/cut me up/turn left without signalling, then yes, on occasion, I do decide to move forward ie get the hell out of the way.

I try to avoid the junction that you mention, as if on Marshalsea Rd and wanting to cross Borough High Street, there is no space at all for bicycles, and it is tricky to ensure that the traffic realises which lane you want to be in if heading for Dover St/Long Lane, when going straight on.

As for Paris, I don't believe that legally there is any tolerance with regard to light jumping. Yes, most people do it. I certainly learnt to "do as the Romans...". But I got burnt when caught having jumped two small lights with no other traffic around (other than a police van behind me). That was once I'd left Paris, returned and was enjoying the vélibs. I think you'll find that they've cracked down and on occasions (I was unlucky!) lay down the law.

nickyd have you been to Amsterdam? You'll know it's pretty hairy there as a pedestrian (there's the trams not just the cyclists to watch out for and they won't stop for you)!! If you've not been, I advise you to steer clear.

As a cyclist, I know what a danger pedestrians who don't look when crossing the road can be, in the same way that drivers and their passengers can with their car doors. As we go about the place on our various means of transport, we need to be aware of the others around us and respectful of the law.

Heard an interesting report this week on the radio about how junctions without any lights are generally shown to be safer, as users are generally necessarily more aware of what's going on around them.
Friday 18 May 2012 1.30pm
The swiss system is only for insurance purposes last time I checked. The sticker and number is so tiny you could never take a note when moving.

In london a number of people have third party insurance when cycling - everyone that's a member of the London Cycling Campaign has included free third party insurance in the annual membership fee, from as little as £34 per year.
No connection
Friday 18 May 2012 1.41pm
EleanorT wrote:

Heard an interesting report this week on the radio about how junctions without any lights are generally shown to be safer, as users are generally necessarily more aware of what's going on around them.
You also don't get people (on bikes and in cars) speeding up when the light goes amber just to get through before it goes red.
Friday 18 May 2012 1.56pm
I think one key problem on london traffic is the extreme aggressiveness usually prevalent on our roads and it always feels like no other road users have the slightest undertsanding of users of a different type. Also cycling provisions in London are far from adequate – cycling through town is often a real battle

I think what helps on continent is that many people cycle and drive - hence they know how it feels when a car nearly touches you when overtaking etc and cylists know how it feels to be a driver in a car too. But also the fact that the stronger party would automatically get blamed first in case of accident helps people to be more considerate I think. Maybe because it's a reminder for people that they are in a stronger position?

Therefore I think ideally priorities should be like this:
1. Pedestrians
2. Cyclist
3. Motorbikes
4. Cars
5. Lorries

I think one problem of red light jumping is that people know they can get away. As a cyclist I also don't like people sailing through red lights at speed but have to admit on certain junctions I know, like for example St Georges Circus I stop at red light but give myself something like a 5 sec head start to ensure I'm already in the middle of the junction when cars get green so I can avoid the dodgy left turners into Borough Road. I feel this is way safer. There are many really dangerous junctions like this where I feel cycle priority start lights would make a tremendous difference to everyone and maybe even make the roads feel less aggressive.

Speaking of St. Georges Circus – I've seen a lot of flowers on one of the railings the other day. Was there a new accident or is this related to an old one?
Friday 18 May 2012 1.56pm
southwarkSimon wrote:
Speaking as one of the "responsible" push bikers I would welcome a registration scheme. It makes me as angry as you to see people disregarding the laws of the road. I want London to be a more cycle friendly city but that won't happen as long as the idiots stir up bad feeling in other road users. It's often the "newbies" and Boris bike riders who are the worst.

I started to agree with you then you lost me at the last sentence! I dress normally, have used a Boris bike and don't wear Lycra, yet I've been cycling in London longer than most people and had training through southwark...don't judge a book by it's cover! But yes;

MASSIVE fines if caught going across lights and pedestrian crossing - £100
And fine drivers who stop in the green box as well
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