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Pedestrian road safety in SE1

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Zoe
Sunday 14 October 2012 3.20pm
There's just a lot of pressure from driving in London full stop. Mr Zoe says I become a different person as we turn off the M1 at junction 3, as I am now 'London driver' and thus rude, aggressive and a bit of a ******. I always deny it, but it's true!!!

Have edited for the rude word, occurs to me that James won't like it and will tell me off :-)
Monday 15 October 2012 11.02am
eDWaRD WooDWaRD wrote:
Ivanhoe wrote:
Why ban filtering?
I learned to drive a motorbike before I learned to drive a car. I used to filter all the time. It's (or was) illegal in Switzerland and I once got a huge fine for it. It wasn't until I started driving a car that I realised how much it can inconvenience cars, and I once more experienced it last week, where basically I needed 2 extra pairs of eyes, what with all the bicycles and motorbikes overtaking me right and left or closing me in at red lights.

I'm sorry, but that's pretty poor reasoning. Especially the suggestion that couriers should be able to do it, but no one else should.

Having more awareness of other traffic (especially those types of traffic which take up less of the road space than a car, and which typically go quicker than a car over short journeys) is/should be/will be an increasing part of the skills you need to drive a car in a busy city.

As a motorcyclist who filters when appropriate (as the Highway Code allows, and as any m/c instructor will advise you to do), I kind of think that if I can put up with the dozy car drivers not being aware of the traffic around them, then the least they could do is to put up with the jealousy they suffer from seeing me pass them.

When I filter, I pretty much expect not to be seen, and I ride accordingly. If my filtering causes you to have to slow down or change course, then I'm breaking a traffic rule and should be censored (and we're back to the discussion about lack of any enforcement of ruels of the road). However,if my riding is causing people to do that on a regular basis, then I'm probably riding like an inconsiderate arse and one thing that seems to bear out on two wheels is that that sort of riding generally helps you become quite familiar with local A&E facilities, so it's fairly self-regulating.

(N.B. I'm talking about filtering here, not lane-splitting which is a completely different matter - both legally and in common sense).

...if you press it, they will come.
Monday 15 October 2012 11.30am
Ivanhoe wrote:
eDWaRD WooDWaRD wrote:
Ivanhoe wrote:
Why ban filtering?
I learned to drive a motorbike before I learned to drive a car. I used to filter all the time. It's (or was) illegal in Switzerland and I once got a huge fine for it. It wasn't until I started driving a car that I realised how much it can inconvenience cars, and I once more experienced it last week, where basically I needed 2 extra pairs of eyes, what with all the bicycles and motorbikes overtaking me right and left or closing me in at red lights.

I'm sorry, but that's pretty poor reasoning. Especially the suggestion that couriers should be able to do it, but no one else should.

Having more awareness of other traffic (especially those types of traffic which take up less of the road space than a car, and which typically go quicker than a car over short journeys) is/should be/will be an increasing part of the skills you need to drive a car in a busy city.

As a motorcyclist who filters when appropriate (as the Highway Code allows, and as any m/c instructor will advise you to do), I kind of think that if I can put up with the dozy car drivers not being aware of the traffic around them, then the least they could do is to put up with the jealousy they suffer from seeing me pass them.

When I filter, I pretty much expect not to be seen, and I ride accordingly. If my filtering causes you to have to slow down or change course, then I'm breaking a traffic rule and should be censored (and we're back to the discussion about lack of any enforcement of ruels of the road). However,if my riding is causing people to do that on a regular basis, then I'm probably riding like an inconsiderate arse and one thing that seems to bear out on two wheels is that that sort of riding generally helps you become quite familiar with local A&E facilities, so it's fairly self-regulating.

(N.B. I'm talking about filtering here, not lane-splitting which is a completely different matter - both legally and in common sense).
Yes, well, I am looking at the bigger picture. I think the highway code as it stands is out of sync with the requirements of modern day traffic and needs to be updated for the 21st century.
Monday 15 October 2012 11.40am
Why are you interested in what the highway code says when we are talking about London where there is no enforcement anyway?
Monday 15 October 2012 11.41am
[In reply to EW's post] Possibly so. But surely any update will re Balance things away from cars and towards pedestrians and light transport (cycles/motorcycles)?

N.B. It's a very typical reaction that people who are brought up (and taught to drive) in countries that don't allow filtering are ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED (caps used to give you an idea of how fervent people can get) that it's a dangerous and devilish practise, whereas in countries that allow filtering, drivers tend to understand, to see the sense of it, and to occasionally use their mirrors as a concession to it.

...if you press it, they will come.
Monday 15 October 2012 11.44am
beetroot wrote:
Why are you interested in what the highway code says when we are talking about London where there is no enforcement anyway?

Thanks for being so constructive. You bring new insight into the debate with your enlightening comments.

On the off chance that your question was in any way serious, I'd reply that it's unusual just how many people rant about the dangers and inconsiderate nature of filtering whilst not realising that it's entirely legal and therefore should be expected (so you should be looking out for people doing it).

...if you press it, they will come.
Monday 15 October 2012 11.58am
beetroot wrote:
Why are you interested in what the highway code says when we are talking about London where there is no enforcement anyway?
See my previous comment where I mentioned there should be more police/CSO's on the streets, especially during rush hour.
Monday 15 October 2012 12.02pm
Ivanhoe wrote:
Possibly so. But surely any update will re Balance things away from cars and towards pedestrians and light transport (cycles/motorcycles)?
N.B. It's a very typical reaction that people who are brought up (and taught to drive) in countries that don't allow filtering are ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED (caps used to give you an idea of how fervent people can get) that it's a dangerous and devilish practise, whereas in countries that allow filtering, drivers tend to understand, to see the sense of it, and to occasionally use their mirrors as a concession to it.
a) Probably b) I have driven bikes both in cities where filtering is allowed and also where it isn't. I used to filter in a city where it wasn't allowed until I got a huge fine for it. I don't think it's devilish, I just think it puts a lot more pressure on car drivers. I think everyone should chip in to make traffic a much safer, less frustrating and altogether more pleasurable experience.
Monday 15 October 2012 3.01pm
I think I understand what you're saying. But:

- the "reducing pressure on car drivers" argument is quite close to saying: "rather than require that car drivers pay attention, we should ban other road users from being anywhere near them", and;

- your suggestion that couriers should be able to filter, but no one else should, is a little random to say the least.

...if you press it, they will come.
Zoe
Monday 15 October 2012 8.05pm
Ivanhoe's earlier comment is right, my partner is American and can't understand why we think undertaking on the motorway is dangerous. We all seem to think our own country's rules are the height of safety but everyone else's are terrible.
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