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The Siege of The Elephant: Convergence against gentrification of The Elephant Nov 17th 2012

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Tuesday 23 October 2012 10.26am
YNB79- Progress is always good... when everyone is progressing. not just a select few.

boroughpaul- It may be a bit strong... but it is what I see as the truth. Actually, it is the truth as most of it is fact. whether its strong or not. Maybe if as a society (that wants to protect what it has fought years to gain) we made a stand, this crap will disappear.

Shaggy- its called passion :-)

But in all seriousness... do people not see what is happening? Slowly we are moving back into the dark ages! Except now there is no where for the poor to live. At least people back then realised that the lower class need to live in close proximity to their work. and with privatised rail extortionate prices(another great decision) how are they expected to pay the fare to even get to work!?

Canary wharf/East London River side- once seen as the pits… funny considering the start of regeneration was to improve the lives of the dockworkers that lived in the area… not so some idiot can get a high out of buying a studio flat for £2000000 or whatever the going rateis these days.

Waterloo/Borough/Bermondsey- increasing numbers of new build flats, that are excluded from the social housing clause (even though Southwark has one of the highest housing waiting lists) and even worse… unless you’re a millionaire, no one can afford to buy.

Elephant and Castle- next on a long line of areas that will be taken over by corporate greed.

Can you see the spread from the city out?

Not only is this the reality of the situation, but with the recent talks about moving people on housing benefit “out of the area” you can see where this elitist way of thinking is leading. Out of sight, out of mind…


And the last thing. People nowadays are too scared to say what they think. Say it. if people do not speak out then we only have ourselves to blame. And I am not talking about arguing. If someone disagrees with what I am saying and has a valid point, I will totally accept it as I am not an unreasonable person. but I have found that most people agree. if you think i am wrong.. then tell me. I am all for hearing other views that may affect mine.

This is how people change the world. They start to talk and LISTEN to eachother not act like politicians where they have a slanging match in the Commons.
Tuesday 23 October 2012 10.53am
You mention Waterloo, but on the whole it has not been gentrified, the reason is that there is so much social, not council, housing around. Henry House, the Roupell Street Peabody, the flats on and around the Cut, Coin street etc. In nearly all of these the residents take responsibility for their communities.

So I would not be anti gentrification but pro community builders in both senses.It would be tough and require vision and hard work, but if that is the outcome generations would thank you.
Tuesday 23 October 2012 12.41pm
I thought people aspire not to be poor. So rather than saying we need more living space for the poor, something should be done to increase the social mobility in this country. This would include things like outstanding schools and access to university for everybody. Minimum pay that actually enables people to live in London.
Tuesday 23 October 2012 1.08pm
Barbara C- I couldn't agree more. I am not saying that they need to make more space to accommodate being poor, but they exist in the present and the only way to help improve this is not by making living or working in the area a small fortune. But you are dead right. this is what I am talking about. we need to speak out about what is important to us as everyday people living in the area.

Theedy- yes there are a few community builders in Waterloo, but not enough as you rightly said!
Tuesday 23 October 2012 1.44pm
I've lived in Elephant and Castle for two and half years and watched the very slow redevelopment and countless consultations and talk.

Last night I walked home from Borough through E & C and I have to say I was appalled at the state of the area.
Let me tell you, it couldn't be further from gentrification. Aside from some new-build apartments (Strata, Printworks, O'Central etc) and the removal of the southern roundabout underpass, it still remains very much a working-class low socio economic area.

I encountered tramps, drunken beggers in the subway, the shopping centre looking like a large trash can had been emptied on it, vomit on the stairs and unkempt gardens. Frankly, a disgusting mess.

Until there is some local pride in the area, I doubt any of these so-called elitist people will be rushing to live there. In my view, the gentrification is years away, but will eventually happen because of E & Cs proximity and transport links. I'm not sure I'm prepared to wait.
Tuesday 23 October 2012 3.48pm
Merlin Rouge wrote:
ceity slicker wrote:
Merlin Rouge wrote:
ceity slicker wrote:
Hi Merlin Rouge
I don't know what gentrification is and I would need to be clear on that point before deciding For or Against it. Can you help me with that?

Until then, I'm tempted to consider "The Siege" as I would a post-modernist work of art...as a subjective event from which everyone will draw the conclusion they wish to.

The organisers Southwark Notes explain gentrification and regeneration on their site:

http://southwarknotes.wordpress.com/where-we-are-coming-from/


"Gentrification is...the displacement of the original poorer inhabitants by wealthier ones." Southwark Notes.

Have I got this right ?

So it would be OK by Southwark Notes to displace the original inhabitants of the Elephant, as long as it was with poorer people ?

Myself, am not following the logic of your question

It seems pretty straightforward to me. But in the interests of clarity, please let me try again:

1) Q: what exactly do you mean by gentrification ?
A: You referred me to Southwark Notes

I followed your suggestion and saw the one-line definition from the website which says : "Gentrification is...the displacement of the original poorer inhabitants by wealthier ones".

2) Q: So you would be happy to see the displacement of the original poorer inhabitants with even poorer ones ?

Or to put it another way, if "wealthier" people are the problem, would "even poorer" people solve the problem ?

No problem with people starting threads to promote their own personal interests, but it would be polite to answer the questions which people then raise about your posting rather than refering them to third party websites, or just evading the issue.
Tuesday 23 October 2012 5.03pm
ceity slicker wrote:
Merlin Rouge wrote:
ceity slicker wrote:
Merlin Rouge wrote:
ceity slicker wrote:
Hi Merlin Rouge
I don't know what gentrification is and I would need to be clear on that point before deciding For or Against it. Can you help me with that?

Until then, I'm tempted to consider "The Siege" as I would a post-modernist work of art...as a subjective event from which everyone will draw the conclusion they wish to.

The organisers Southwark Notes explain gentrification and regeneration on their site:

http://southwarknotes.wordpress.com/where-we-are-coming-from/


"Gentrification is...the displacement of the original poorer inhabitants by wealthier ones." Southwark Notes.

Have I got this right ?

So it would be OK by Southwark Notes to displace the original inhabitants of the Elephant, as long as it was with poorer people ?

Myself, am not following the logic of your question

It seems pretty straightforward to me. But in the interests of clarity, please let me try again:

1) Q: what exactly do you mean by gentrification ?
A: You referred me to Southwark Notes

I followed your suggestion and saw the one-line definition from the website which says : "Gentrification is...the displacement of the original poorer inhabitants by wealthier ones".

2) Q: So you would be happy to see the displacement of the original poorer inhabitants with even poorer ones ?

Or to put it another way, if "wealthier" people are the problem, would "even poorer" people solve the problem ?

No problem with people starting threads to promote their own personal interests, but it would be polite to answer the questions which people then raise about your posting rather than refering them to third party websites, or just evading the issue.

flawed logic and blinkered views
Tuesday 23 October 2012 6.00pm
So on exactly what ground do you plan to prevent people who have bothered to get a higher education and good jobs from living in E&C?
Tuesday 23 October 2012 6.09pm
I hold no brief for Southwark Notes, but it seems that some people are missing/ignoring the key word displacement.

Surely the debate is about whether new, more affluent, residents are arriving at the expense of existing communities - not the crude poor = good, rich = bad interpretation some are giving.

Editor of the London SE1 website.
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Tuesday 23 October 2012 6.13pm
@ James

I reiterate my question which I believe to be in line with the original post

" So on exactly what ground do you plan to prevent people who have bothered to get a higher education and good jobs from living in E&C? "
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