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Monday 6 July 2015 1.50pm
Me too. Ill be there first thing on Thursday. Of country all these new tall buildings are making the echoes from the sirens and the motor bikes far louder.
Monday 6 July 2015 1.54pm
Katia wrote:
The roundabout is absolutely terrifying for pedestrians at the moment, I miss the tunnels already. The noise is unbelievable.
I shall go to the shopping centre to meet Delancy, I will bring an indignant child, maybe they can show her how she can dodge the traffic until they are done or she is old enough, whichever comes first. I'm in half a mind of turning up with all her equally angry friends from around the Elephant, that would make for a lovely photo OP for the developers.

Good idea Katia. A few tips for your conversation with Delancey
- They'll insist "it's TfL & the council" not us. Which is true. Of all developers they're late to the party here and had little if any role in shaping the proposal now being built. So don't go hard on them for the design. The time to do that is at the next council elections and general election, as our council leaders and MP all played a big part in pushing the plan through an initially reluctant TfL.
BUT
- It's been within in their power to have made the case to retain the two subways linking to their shopping centre plot. In spring last year they were open to and supportive of the idea of integrating these subways with their development. But they seem to have just nodded along and taken the idea no where. Emphasise how the New Kent Road tunnel doesn't in any way clash with the new road layout being built, the current exit ramp and stairs all still fall within a greatly enlarged pavement outside Metro Central Heights. Retaining the subway to the Tarbernacle is too late in my view because the new wider road requires the space currently used by the stairs and entrance ramps on the west side.
- You may also choose to push back on their plans to build over the market area (I've heard about this from TfL's architects who are miffed it disrupts their concept of a birds eye view square for the rearranged roundabout). I'm personally not against this encroachment of open space by Delancey if we encourage them to relocate the bustling market to their new market square on Elephant Road, because the new peninsula will be an unpleasant space to open onto regardless of the Labour-Tory pipe dream and unbelievable CGI, and the shopping centre development is likely to have open public space to it's southern side (guessing here, we'll know soon).
Monday 6 July 2015 2.27pm
Absolutely. This piazza die a is
rubbish. Who wants to sit amongst the fumes and the racket of non stop traffic. I'll be there complaining loudly. And as developers with all the dish don't tell me their word won't count.
Monday 6 July 2015 2.41pm
jackie rokotnitz wrote:
Absolutely. This piazza die a is
rubbish. Who wants to sit amongst the fumes and the racket of non stop traffic. I'll be there complaining loudly. And as developers with all the dish don't tell me their word won't count.

Go for it. I agree, developers hold lots of cards, I'm just trying to be pragmatic about the roundabout project in relation to Delancey. The council love to emphasise this has all been a decade in the planning, that they were set on the path to total subway removal years ago but that the design we see was done in 2013, before Delancey had a stake. TfL were poised for public consultation (a.k.a. marketing) when they bought the shopping centre. If we're to keep a subway of some kind under New Kent Road I think the pressure needs to be focused, and also given positive commercial emphasise because it'll increase footfall directly into the centre and the otherwise less accessible lower floor retail space (which they said would be retail space when I spoke last year as it is now, not storage rooms).
Monday 6 July 2015 2.54pm
Trust me, I'll be there. Sorry my auto correct keeps putting silly words. They've got all the DOSH! Anyway.I'm nothing if not strident and opinionated and I will GO FOR IT!!
jpm
Monday 6 July 2015 5.22pm
It's a shame when there's still a real opportunity to work from what we've got now - today - and make a better fist of it.

What really gets in the way of things is when people aren't prepared to look pragmatically with an open mind about alternatives but push ahead with their own plans for fear of losing space.

Of course it could also be that the contractors have already been commissioned to demolish the subways and the contracts don't allow TfL/Southwark Council to get out of it (or paying for it, done or not).

Shame!
Monday 6 July 2015 5.32pm
Make sure to go and convince Delancy. Thursday 12-8, Friday 9-5, Saturday 9-3. Up to you. EVERYONE.
Tuesday 7 July 2015 3.53pm
This news just in from TfL in response to my enquiry a week or so ago about the potential for re-opening subways. Last year I was told they'd just be bricked up, but after seeing one subway pumped full of concrete I feared the worst. It's been confirmed:

"Following up on your question about the London Road subway, it will be filled in like the others. We will install utility service ducts in the section directly beneath the carriageway before it is filled in.

There are no plans for the entrance to that subway to be retained

We did look at whether the subway entrances could be kept as a ‘void’ and simply covered with a deck, or used as cafés for example. However, the public consultation had a preference for cafés to be located at surface level and because of the additional costs to design and construct decking of suitable strength and to provide ongoing maintenance for the structure this was rejected. At this time, there is no clear desire or agreed plan on how the space could be used and how it would generate an income rather than act as an open-ended liability.

The relevant section in the consultation report on the urban realm proposals is page 38.

I’m sorry, as I know this is not the answer you were hoping for and I appreciate your commitment to keeping at least one subway in some form of use. There will be two subways retained for London Underground works as part of the northern line ticket hall expansion (across the link road and across to the island/peninsula).

The subway entrances will be pumped with concrete and sealed. I’m not sure of the cost, but I’m assured it could be re-opened in the future if a suitable use was found and the funds made available to remove the concrete in-fill."

I've asked for clarification about the two subways retained for LU works, to see if this means retained for construction crew or the public until Northern Line works are complete.
Tuesday 7 July 2015 4.09pm
I never needed the subways for cafes. I need them to cross the road away from the exhaust fumes.
Tuesday 7 July 2015 5.18pm
I am moaning again sorry, but the old subways were so easy to navigate as I recall, all subways went to the centre, bit like axle of a wheel.
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