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Bakerloo Line Extension

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Thursday 21 August 2014 5.40pm
It would indeed be such a waste if Bricklayer's didn't get a tube station under this plan. Perhaps it would bring back some of the life and community that was there before a motorway and a flyover were ploughed through it.

And this combined with the fact that the existing site is ideal for, indeed safeguarded for, an Old Street-style tube station arrangement. And Old Street's done rather well. It is near impossible to see how it could have developed without its tube station. Not including Bricklayer's would consign it to a fate of under-investment, packed buses sitting in traffic and filthy air. With a tube station there would be such an opportunity to redevelop the industrial estate on the old goods depot. Perhaps we could see a future where it's Inmarsat's new HQ... that'd provide a job or two...

It would be good to have some kind of campaign to get Bricklayer's a tube station. Was successful for Woolwich getting its Crossrail station, which wasn't on the original plan. Only snag is that this is all so far away (2040+) that I struggle to be that enthusiastic. Anyone out there have more vision than me?

And god I really hope they're not so stupid as to build more roads into central London.
Friday 22 August 2014 9.05am
Given that Bricklayers is a few minutes walk from The Elephant the chances of a tube station costing hundereds of millions being built there are as near to zero as makes no odds. Any campaign for one would be guaranteed to be utterly futile. The first station beyond Elephant on this route would likely be past Burgess Park and most likely developed in the opportunity area that has been defined. That would put it somewhere at or beyond B&Q.
Friday 22 August 2014 11.09am
boroughbloke wrote:
Given that Bricklayers is a few minutes walk from The Elephant the chances of a tube station costing hundereds of millions being built there are as near to zero as makes no odds. Any campaign for one would be guaranteed to be utterly futile. The first station beyond Elephant on this route would likely be past Burgess Park and most likely developed in the opportunity area that has been defined. That would put it somewhere at or beyond B&Q.

Eh? From a quick look by eye the distance between Elephant and the Bricklayer's Arms seems about the same as the distance between Elephant and Lambeth North and less than the distance between Lambeth North and Waterloo (or Waterloo and Embankment, Embankment and Charing Cross ... you get the idea). It also seems to be a longer distance (again, by eye, not measured properly so I could be wrong)than Elephant and Kennington. So why is it too short to justify a station at a major bus interchange?

Mind you I cant see any stations earmarked on any of these maps so I dont know where the fear that one isnt planned for here is coming from.
Friday 22 August 2014 11.30am
I think you'd need to consider the distance between stations on the Jubilee Line as being more represetative of what they consider as appropriate. Personally, I would have thought that somewhere around the OKR Tesco would be more representative of a reasonable interval. A station at the Bricklayer's would make much social sense but unlikely to meet the "return on investment" type criteria to be applied.
Friday 22 August 2014 11.43am
marcusm wrote:
I think you'd need to consider the distance between stations on the Jubilee Line as being more represetative of what they consider as appropriate. Personally, I would have thought that somewhere around the OKR Tesco would be more representative of a reasonable interval. A station at the Bricklayer's would make much social sense but unlikely to meet the "return on investment" type criteria to be applied.

*Goes back to map* ;)

The distance seems about half the distance from Waterloo to London Bridge that covers two stops on the JLE.

It also seems equivalent to the distance between Bermondsey and Canada Water. (Admittedly other distances on JLE are much longer but some of those are for good reasons).

I dont see why a case for a station at Bricklayer's couldnt be made.
Friday 22 August 2014 12.07pm
Neil wrote:
boroughbloke wrote:
Given that Bricklayers is a few minutes walk from The Elephant the chances of a tube station costing hundereds of millions being built there are as near to zero as makes no odds.

Eh? From a quick look by eye the distance between Elephant and the Bricklayer's Arms seems about the same as the distance between Elephant and Lambeth North

Lambeth North Tube is closer to E&C Tube than the Bricklayer's arms by about 60 meters.




Friday 22 August 2014 12.11pm
Ah, but you've used the Northern Line entrance!

(Kidding!)

When I see people using computers like that I wish I wasnt a complete technophobe!
Friday 22 August 2014 12.13pm
The distances on the Jubilee Line Extenstion may indeed be instructive if you consider Waterloo and Southwark are less than half a mile from each other. And the latter is driving the sort of regeneration that is impossible at Bricklayer's without a tube station. I'm no expert in cost-benefit analysis stuff, but you'd have thought location, available land, relative poverty, poor transport links, opportunity for growth would all weigh heavily in its favour. Certainly a case for it. I'd suggest a strong one, but that's a matter of opinion.
Friday 22 August 2014 12.35pm
According to Wikipedia Southwark station was only added "after lobbying by the local council" though
Friday 22 August 2014 1.46pm
The map shown in the Evening Standard taken from the Mayor's 2050 Transport Strategy (July 2014) indicates approximate station locations in graduated red/pink tone.

The logical place to build a station on the OKR would be the huge Tesco car park site which could trigger over-site development to help pay towards the Bakerloo extension by using the new Infrastructure Levy tax on the developer / landowner.

Ironically this whole area was once railway land which formed part of the Bricklayers Arms rail goods depot - of course, no-one in Public Office has (yet) had the foresight to safeguard a Bakerloo Line extension route across the former railway lands - yet another wasted opportunity.

If you look at all the possible station locations along the route map, they appear to be driven by development opportunities specifically to raise money towards meeting some of the capital cost.

The OKR Tesco site itself was the subject of a thwarted planning application some years ago for new homes and shopping facilities - which was rejected by the Southwark Planning Committee on the patently absurd grounds that it would take business away from the Elephant & Castle shopping centre. So by luck, rather than by Strategic Planning, the site is still available for development.

Returning to Bricklayers Arms - I would expect that TfL are probably earmarking this site for use during the construction process for a shaft / worksite / storage area and on completion of the scheme it would no doubt serve as a ventilation / emergency escape shaft. That will be an issue for local residents who will have to ensure all of the pain of the construction stage without the pay-back of a new station.

I do believe that it is worth lobbying for a station at Bricklayers Arms as part of the forthcoming TfL consultation next month.

A Bricklayers Arms Station would effectively create a new commercial hub (as indeed it once was pre-1968 before construction of the flyover) and thereby extend the scope of Central London - which is a Policy objective of both Southwark and the GLA.

Simon Hughes has already seen an opportunity here as his website clearly shows in organising a petition for the Bakerloo to be extended down the Old Kent Road.

This is a shrewd move as it capitalises upon core support areas within his constituency and aligns himself with the route option which TfL and the Mayor prefer.

Peter John is an intelligent and extremely capable politician - but on this issue I think he's been backing the wrong horse down Camberwell & Peckham way for far too long.
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