jamesup wrote:If the ramps can be removed, with access only by stairs, and level crossings for those needing a flat surface - you could still reclaim the vast bulk of the considerable surface space the subways use and thus potentially subway lovers can continue their morlockian 'express' routes while we surface lovers enjoy the pleasant new public space.
Are the ramps a red line for the opposition or would stairs do?
boroughbloke wrote:I don't know, boroughbloke - I'm temporarily walking with a stick, due to a sprained ankle, and I find the long ramp down from Newington Causeway to the subway direct to the shopping centre a godsend. Approaching as I do from the north, it's always been my natural route to the shops, and as long as the shopping centre survives I see no reason why that subway should be filled in just to serve some unexplained anti-subway agenda.I'm definitely a zig zagger (including now if that means avoiding the subways), but fit and strong? Not always. For at least 6 months I was unable to reach the shopping centre at all. Doing that would have meant using steps or a ramp and both were utterly impractical for me unless I actually wanted to spend several minutes with the world watching me clutching the handrail as I gingerly took each painful step. What I would have given then for the disgusting subways to be gone and replaced by nice, flat crossings.
John C wrote:I don't know, boroughbloke - I'm temporarily walking with a stick, due to a sprained ankle, and I find the long ramp down from Newington Causeway to the subway direct to the shopping centre a godsend.
boroughbloke wrote:John C wrote:I don't know, boroughbloke - I'm temporarily walking with a stick, due to a sprained ankle, and I find the long ramp down from Newington Causeway to the subway direct to the shopping centre a godsend.
Enabled people very often assume a ramp is the universal solution to mobility for the disabled, but this is a very distorted, enabled view of disability (be it temporary or permanent). With back problems, like mine, a ramp of the sort of gradient at E&C may as well have been a scree covered mountain slope. Basically, ascending or descending ramps put my foot into a position that would trigger instant and excruciating, back spasms (this is whilst taking industrial strength opiates). Steps, however painful and slow, were preferable since I could keep my foot at right angles to my leg. For obvious reasons anything on the flat was preferable.
Since getting to the shopping centre on foot, without encountering ramps and steps is to all intents impossible when coming from Newington Causeway, without some circuitous diversion, the shopping centre thus became off limits to me.
Similarly, the enabled think a ramp is an excellent solution to a wheelchair user. I'd love to see some of those on these boards, so beloved of the subways, try and push an adult up one of the ramps or control a chair going down one. I suspect none of them could actually propel themselves under their own steam up one, and they'd be utterly terrified if they tried to descend one under their own steam. This is one reason that the likes of TfL are so keen to get rid of them - they are a hindrence to mobility, not a help. It is very much worth noting that the subways as they are now configured would never get building regulations approval today on the basis that they are too steep and long for wheelchair users to ascend and way too dangerous to descend for wheelchair users (and thus other pedestrians because of the threat from wheelchairs). Without going down and counting the steps in a flight, I'd hazard a guess that the steps would not get building regs approval either.
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