London SE1 community website

Elephant & Castle Northern Roundabout - latest plans

Join in these discussions today! Log in or register.
Current: 16 of 22
Saturday 26 April 2014 3.55pm
I read on the Boriswatch website that TfL's so-called "Roads Task Force" is working on a study for the Inner Ring Road which is looking at ways of dealing with the blight the road causes in many places - and a map of the road in this presentation shows, at the Elephant & Castle, a blob saying "underway"(pg 23 of PDF), which seems to imply there are ideas about putting something underground, possibly the ring-road, although it is hard to see how you could do this without causing massive new blight where roads drop down into the tunnel (like the massive long Bricklayer's Arms flyover ramps in reverse...).

Apparently the "Task Force" will produce an "Update report in summer", or perhaps "Autumn 2014", so seems odd to me that the consultation on the scheme being discussed here closes on 30th April. My bet would be on this current consultation is a politically-driven red herring to try to be seen to address the cycle deaths and injuries at the Elephant and will be overtaken late this year by the recommendations of the current study. What do others think?

The report says:
5.2 A central/inner London study is intended to better understand the long term vision for central London and the role of the Inner Ring Road (IRR). The IRR forms the diversionary route around the congestion charging zone and is key to movement in inner London. However, much of the IRR is equally important for its ‘place’ function and a series of major developments are underway or planned in areas such as Vauxhall, Nine Elms, Battersea, Elephant & Castle and Euston. The study will seek to understand the extent (and benefits) of place ambition, how it may be achieved, and to what extent traffic congestion might increase.
5.3 In parallel, the study will explore whether the provision of alternative ‘replacement’ capacity elsewhere in inner London – in the form of a new tolled tunnel – could be effective and feasible in order to sustain network functioning.
Saturday 26 April 2014 8.52pm
[quote Luke]I read on the Boriswatch website....

Great research Luke, that's absolutely fascinating. I totally agree the current rather frantic pushy consultation is definitely politically driven by Labour Southwark and Boris, they're simply desperate for momentum, and rather than making simple rapid improvements to show momentum are obsessed with comprehensive redevelopment, because it makes bigger headlines.

The TfL document forecasting massive congestion issues ahead for London that I've been sharing snippets from on the Roundabout's Facebook page ( in recent weeks has been a Guardian story today and does make it seem even more ridiculous that TfL would be engineering in a 17% increase in congestion, which comes about because of the dogma of plonking piazzas and demolishing subways regardless of context, crime stats etc.
Wednesday 30 April 2014 2.02pm
A 1980s picture of one of the E&C subways was featured in today's Telegraph:

No wonder so many risked life and limb dodging traffic above ground rather than having to use the subways...
Wednesday 30 April 2014 2.28pm
Don't recognize the location, seems much wider than the E&C ones that remain?
Wednesday 30 April 2014 3.53pm
Agree with Jamesup that's not the E&C subways neither in the 80s nor today, it must be a case of mistaken identity. It happens a lot. The E&C roundabout was referred to by John Humphreys only a couple of years ago or so on the Today Programme as the one with the Imax in the centre of it. You'd have thought a Londoner like Mr Humphreys and a stickler for accuracy would get that major fact right!

And remember the bullshit about crime... Met police report 978 incidents at surface vs 19 in subways to the three years to May 2013... not a fact TfL or our politicians cared to look up but one which surprises the subway sceptics I've shared it with.
Wednesday 30 April 2014 4.23pm
jamesup wrote:
Don't recognize the location, seems much wider than the E&C ones that remain?

That was the subway that connected the area opposite the leisure centre to the shopping centre. It run west to East.

It has since been filled in and at ground level above it is a pedestrian crossing.
Wednesday 30 April 2014 4.33pm
I'll take your word for it. It's a pity such historic images cloud contemporary perceptions of the 7 subways that do remain.
Wednesday 30 April 2014 8.41pm
Perronetonian wrote:
I'll take your word for it. It's a pity such historic images cloud contemporary perceptions of the 7 subways that do remain.

That picture wasn't intended to cloud anyone's perception.

I think it merely illustrates why some people preferred to cross busy traffic rather than travel below it.

James Hatts posted this in Dec 2012, the story was about people crossing above ground when some of the tunnels were closed for refurbishment, but I think the two images work well together: people still now make that above ground crossing.

Personally, I dont favour filling the subways in, and think they should be re-purposed, perhaps as bike lanes.
Wednesday 30 April 2014 9.00pm
The Elephant and Castle is a very different place to what it was in either the 80s or the 90s or for that matter the 00s. The facts speak for themselves.
- Over 3,500 use subways now at peak hour, over 1000 in the single tunnel under New Kent Road
- In the three years to May 2013 only four incidents with pedestrians at surface... so those who do chose to cross where there aren't crossings aren't doing a bad job of it. No collisions at St George's Road which is often cited as a hot spot for jaywalkers, only one collision on the Tabernacle Link Road. In contrast there were 49 collisions involving cyclists... so don't let anyone hood wink you that the changes are for pedestrians, not when journeys are being slowed for them too by up to 41% at the busiest section. See data here:
- In the three years to May 2013 there were only 19 crimes in the subway vs 978 at surface within the very immediate vicinity

If the blinkered attitude to the potential for subways sustains the blight on pedestrian safety will be with us for years to come. Look elsewhere in the world to see subways that work brilliant, sometimes in the most unlikely of places.

Why do you think subways are better suited to cyclists than pedestrians? Don't the greater number of pedestrians and their relatively slower pace suit a subway better than cyclists? Why can't pedestrians continue to benefit from a space where they will never collide with another form of transport?
Monday 12 May 2014 12.15pm
Today's Evening Standard has a vague article here on a new £30bn (! only slightly less than the cost of HS2 from London to Manchester) idea for building an underground motorway, near the inner ring road and not the south circular as previously suggested, passing right under Kennington, Walworth and Bermondsey, and with a massive junction at Bricklayer's Arms... TfL may think subways belong to the 1960s but they appear to think talking about massive new roads in central London is modern?
Current: 16 of 22

To post a message, please log in or register..
We are part of
Independent Community News Network
Email newsletter

For the latest local news and events direct to your inbox every Monday, you need our weekly email newsletter SE1 Direct.

7,000+ locals read it every week. Can you afford to miss out?

Read the latest issue before signing up

Also on the forum
Views expressed in this discussion forum are those of the contributors and may not reflect the editorial policy of this website. Please read our terms and conditions