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Elephant & Castle Northern Roundabout - latest plans

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Sunday 2 March 2014 11.23am
Seems like a very valid and creative use of the subways, especially given the whole E&C development was supposed to be an environmental marvel a few years back.

Would those not in favour care to comment?
Sunday 2 March 2014 1.17pm
Interesting and if we could make the underpasses verdant as WELL that would be super.
Monday 3 March 2014 9.22am
jackie rokotnitz wrote:
Interesting and if we could make the underpasses verdant as WELL that would be super.

What are you going to grow down there, mushrooms? Plants need light water and maintenance - do you really think that will happen? Not with Southwark Council...

I read the posts by Jackie and Perret with caution, a theme seems to emerge more about their beef with local politicians than the issues around (i) pedestrians getting from A to B in the fastest way and (2) improving the urban landscape. I don't give a monkeys about their local Councillor but I do care about the awful pedestrian conditions at E&C. I am sick of walking 500 metres to cross the road!
Monday 3 March 2014 2.35pm
As I said, you would need a glass roof where the Faraday Memorial is. As for the distance...if you want to get to Newington Butts from Newington Causeway, your shortest way is diagonally under ground. Going round a circle of traffic lights and cross ways will take longer, and you'll get wetter, and dirtier.
Tuesday 4 March 2014 11.29am
Apparently, Mayor Johnson is keen on putting the A4 through Hammersmith underground - see Evening Standard Story here.

If it's good enough for a Western suburb, why shouldn't we reverse the current situation at the E&C and put the cars underground, freeing up public space for active travel and just living at ground level? I don't believe TfL have ever seriously considered it, though.
Tuesday 4 March 2014 2.05pm
according to the ES today it's pretty much a done deal that we're getting the traffic across the roundabout...no underground...if it's OK for Hammersmith why isnt it ok for us?
Tuesday 4 March 2014 2.27pm
Problem with putting traffic underground is you need long, wide ramps which end up creating huge barriers to pedestrian movement and extra noise as vehicles accelerate up them. Fine on the A4 which is a dual carriageway but not in a built up area such as ours.
Tuesday 4 March 2014 2.28pm
Puttin gthe road her ein a tunnel will costs tens, probably hundreds of millions.
If there is a solution costing only a few million that achieves all the objectives then why won't that do?
These schemes come out of the public purse, which is for the benefit of all not just t improve local residents views and property prices.
Wednesday 5 March 2014 10.58am
Alas it looks to me that the traffic is going to be roaring both ways alongside our building MCH. More noise and more pollution for us...
Wednesday 5 March 2014 1.16pm
Interesting data just in from Transport for London obtained via an FOI. My additions are in CAPS (no I'm not shouting)!:

"TfL has measured pedestrian journey times through the junction using modelling software for the existing and proposed layouts. A variety of different routes have been assessed with the typical average journey time under the current arrangement being 121 seconds, preliminary modelling has shown that under the proposal this is anticipated to increase by around 10%."

- SO CAR JOURNEY TIMES WILL INCREASE BY 10%. THAT CAN ONLY MEAN MORE EXHAUST FUMES, MORE NOISE. IS THIS ACCEPTABLE AS THE OUTCOME OF MAJOR INVESTMENT?

"TfL has undertaken a preliminary modelling comparison between the existing and proposed layouts based of the PM peak period only. This has shown that the average journey time for general traffic is currently 222 seconds and that, at this stage, this likely to increase by an average of around 17% in the proposal."

- SO PEDESTRIANS JOURNEY TIMES WILL INCREASE BY EVEN MORE AT 17%. PEDESTRIANS ARE CLEARLY THE BIGGEST LOSERS IN THIS PROPOSAL YET CLLR PETER JOHN SAYS HE WANTS THE SUBWAYS DEMOLISHED SO "PEOPLE CAN CROSS THE ROAD MORE DIRECTLY". SORRY PETER. BUT "DIRECT" FOR TFL MEANS SLOWER. IT MAY ONLY BE SECONDS BUT IT FEELS LONGER. ELEPHANT & CASTLE IS A COMMUTER HUB AND RESIDENTIAL AREA IT HAS NO ASPIRATIONS TO BE A TOURIST DESTINATION. INEVITABLY PEOPLE WILL TRY AND SHORTEN THEIR JOURNEY TIME BY TAKING RISKS CROSSING AT RED LIGHTS WITH NO OPTION TO GO IN A SUBWAY. THE OLD, THE YOUNG AND THE INFIRM WILL BE THE BIGGEST LOSERS AS THE LEAST CAPABLE PEDESTRIANS OF GAMBLING WITH RED MEN.

How can anyone back a plan that increases journey times. Do they really want to linger longer alongside a 4 to 6 lane ring road. Let's demand a proposal that makes better use of the space we have, that doesn't come with so many negative side effects.


Currently our analysis shows 3645 pedestrians using the subways during the 17:00 18:00 weekday peak hour.
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