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Elephant & Castle Northern Roundabout - latest plans

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Current: 8 of 22
Wednesday 12 March 2014 8.20pm
This is what TfL's proposal for the roundabout doesn't tell you.


All figures (e.g. journey times and tree felling) are obtained via successful requests for information from TfL.
Wednesday 12 March 2014 9.07pm
So you saw SPD 11 and did object to it then?
Wednesday 12 March 2014 9.36pm
jamesup wrote:
So you saw SPD 11 and did object to it then?

James, I and others both got the distinct impression from announcements at Community Forum (you know, the ones hosted by Sarah Gaventa at Etc venues) and was advised by the likes of Pat Brown (Lend Lease's consultant and chair of the closed door E&C Strategic Stakeholder Forum) and my local councillors to not focus on objections to matters concerning the roundabout in the SPD consultation because the roundabout was to be consulted on indepth with local residents.

The SPD was a far reaching document with many potential lines of objection. So I focused on an adjacent problem, the grave consequences of making St George's Road two way, shifting all south bond private traffic off London Road. It turned out to be the single biggest line of objection according to Cllr David Noakes and was thankfully booted out of the SPD. That result now enables TfL to fit a two way segregated cycle lane in it and smooth the remaining light traffic flow by narrowing the carriageway.

I and other objectors also chose not to try and fight a campaign on two fronts. As it turned out this was a woefully ill-judged decision because since July 2012 there have of course been absolutely no workshops about the proposals for the roundabout and we are now presented by TfL with a sales pitch not a consultation. Peter John and other flag wavers for TfL's plan now treat some the most significant infrastructure changes of the proposal as decisions decided years ago rather than looking at the proposal as a complete set of changes with their associated consequences.

And what about the validity of objections from people for whom wading through an SPD is less tangibly relevant or even known about but for whom a local project trumpeted in their evening newspaper and visualised with CGI images and an annotated map is a cause worth piping up about?


No one has yet made clear what the consultation is actually for except to choose the route of one cycle lane, or cynically I suggest, to give it the gloss of democratic approval? Does anyone really know?
Wednesday 12 March 2014 10.43pm
Why, why why? What is supposed to be so good about this plan???
Thursday 13 March 2014 8.16am
I think consultation is a statutory requirement.
Thursday 13 March 2014 10.25am
How on earth are we supposed to get into the New Kent Road from MCH? Suppose I want to go to B&Q or Tesco in the car? No left turn out of Newington Causeway....and then...?
Thursday 13 March 2014 1.59pm
jamesup wrote:
I think consultation is a statutory requirement.

But consultation about what? In your view what do you think is up for debate beyond the option A and B cycle routes? Are there any statutory requirements about the extent to which consultation shapes a proposal, if the overwhelming volume of responses is NO can they still go ahead? I presume they can, though it doesn't deter me and others from trying. The consultation does at least trigger a public debate - not that TfL are curating any - both here, in social media and at forthcoming drop ins, which sharpens the debate, and hopefully identifies options for improvement that TfL are not currently offering. The junction designer did for example say in October, "well if there's demand for subways we can certainly incorporate them in some locations", and he agreed the two busiest routes and most useful locations for his engineering are between the Tabernacle and Shopping Centre and MCH and Shopping Centre.
Thursday 13 March 2014 2.26pm
Not being able to turn East when exiting Newington Causeway means drivers will have to turn west into Borough Road then South down London Road: this will significantly lengthen journey times given that London road isn't particularly wide and is prone to congestion as it is.
Thursday 13 March 2014 3.45pm
Or up to Harper Road and down towards New Kent Road if heading out and up Great Dover Street and back down Newington Causeway. Both substantially longer than now and of course has an impact on those who live along these routes too.
Thursday 13 March 2014 4.59pm
TfL have sent me this explanation of the purpose and scope of consultation, quoted:

The objective of the consultation exercise is to ensure that TfL makes a better informed decision by engaging with local interested parties and regular users of the interchange. Consultation is not a referendum exercise but it does allows us to add value to the project by tapping into local and user knowledge to ensure designs are better tailored to meet local needs, that the scheme benefits are improved and risks mitigated. The consultation also has the potential to highlight unexpected information about safety, effectiveness or efficiency of elements of the design.

In particular, we are keen to:

- To ascertain people’s preference for design option A or B

- To find out the reasons why some people might support or object to specific elements of the scheme, and what can be done to address those reasons

- To establish any unexpected benefits, dis-benefits or risks that local people or regular users can tell us about

- To find out what local people and/or regular users can tell us about how to add value to this project

- To ensure that all health and safety concerns for particular priority groups (vulnerable users such as cyclists, pedestrians or those mobility difficulties) are properly addressed in the design of the scheme

- To satisfy local stakeholders that their views have been taken into account and explaining where changes have been made as a result of their responses and why other changes have not been made/are not possible
Current: 8 of 22

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