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Elephant & Castle Northern Roundabout - latest plans

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Current: 9 of 22
Sunday 16 March 2014 2.33pm
They need to get rid of the roundabout altogether, not just add pedestrian crossings...
Sunday 16 March 2014 3.29pm
I think I can live with it now taking me 33 seconds to cross the road rather than 30...
Sunday 16 March 2014 7.38pm
Don't post here often but read all the time. Underpasses have to go. The paintings may have looked good 20 years ago but I feel look amateurish now. The subway stinks of a toilet and beggars use it to feed drug habits. The. Subways shield all of this activity. I use to use them daily. I now use the southern crossings. Lived here 20 years now I want to see change for the better. Doesn't everybody ?
Sunday 16 March 2014 8.35pm
williamn wrote:
I think I can live with it now taking me 33 seconds to cross the road rather than 30...

As Paul Daniel's once encouraged us to say Every Second Counts. 10% is the overall figure, some could be worse, some better than what's there now. We should be told what the crossing times are for their proposed lights, they must know from the modelling, so we can judge fairly if the net result is an improvement.


And why is everyone so preoccupied with dirt and aroma on this thread as if it was some unsolvable issue for a subway? Isn't carbon monoxide and other associated exhaust fumes a bit more serious, and of course would increase with TfL's proposal given the 17% slower journey times and increase stop start traffic?
Monday 17 March 2014 11.44am
Perronetonian wrote:
And why is everyone so preoccupied with dirt and aroma on this thread

Because the subways are utterly disgusting and I'm afraid any attempt to make them 'nice' will only last as long as the police or some other form of security are prepared to have someone stood on every single one 24/7. As soon as such a presence stops, and as we can see now the police are not present in the subways 99.9% of the time, the drugged up troglodytes that currently inhabit them will be back peddling everything from hash to heroin to teenagers and adults alike. I noted recently that they are now using very young kids as mules. None of this could happen in broad daylight (and especially not in rain) once the subways, along with their inhabitants and the embarassingly awful 'artwork' are removed.

My only issue with the proposals is that they seem to mostly benefit the few pedestrians shuffling between the Bakerloo Line tube entrance and the shopping centre. My experience is that one of the busiest subways is the one from Newington Causeway to the shopping centre (It's certainly the prime pitch for the troglodyte junkies). It seems this is to be replaced with a dimunitive crossing off towards the Coronet. Thus the much vaunted public space may as well not exist for these pedestrians, who will be inconveniently made to walk around it. I suspect that if the barriers are removed these pedestrians will vote with their feet and cross almost every where except the new crossing, which is obviously not going to be safe.
Monday 17 March 2014 11.46am
BoyG wrote:
They need to get rid of the roundabout altogether, not just add pedestrian crossings...
They are getting rid of the roundabout.
Monday 17 March 2014 12.03pm
jackie rokotnitz wrote:
How on earth are we supposed to get into the New Kent Road from MCH? Suppose I want to go to B&Q or Tesco in the car? No left turn out of Newington Causeway....and then...?
As far as I'm aware, and despite appearances, there is no prohibition to turning right out of MSC onto Newington Causeway. Assuming that your route would be right onto Newington Causeway and then right onto Harper Road at the Crown Court or right onto Great Dover Street at Borough Tube and left onto NKR in both cases. Either route might add a minute ir two to your journey. There are several other routes I can think of as well, but these would likely take longer.

I would suggest, though, that you petition whoever is reposible to improve the access to from MCH onto Newington Causeway generally. It has always been awful and the pathetic pedestrian island causes more problems than it solves. It's rendered particularly useless when drays delivering to Wetherspoons drive straight over it.
Monday 17 March 2014 2.22pm
While looking at the consultation, I noticed this:
Bus stops will be moved away from the shopping centre, to make the busy stretch of road safer for cyclists.

That is, given the choice between inconveniencing people who are alighting or boarding buses at the shopping centre (either because they are changing buses or transport mode, or actually using the shopping centre) and reducing the number of lanes available to private motor traffic in order to give cyclists more space, the planners chose to inconvenience the former.
Monday 17 March 2014 2.45pm
If you LIVE in Metro Central Heights as I do, the fact that I can only turn right out of Newington Causeway ie. North, and to go South I am supposed to go around the houses, ditto all our services, delivery vans, visitors and so on, is diabolical. We are well more than 1000 people, never mind those in the new developments just coming on stream. Furthermore, turning right out of our building to get to Harper Road means going into the congestion charge zone. This will go down like a lead balloon with the plumbers and electricians who have to come. This whole plan is a shambles and seems to me ecologically unsound.
Monday 17 March 2014 3.01pm
Just back from first of TfL's public events with their project manager Will and consultation manager Emma. Confirmation received of the two fixed mandates in the brief:

1 Subways must go, this is a TfL policy regardless of local context, a zealot like belief in improvement much like flyer overs and gyratories were in the mid century period. That there's been a case for them here for over 100 years is to their engineers an irrelevance. Which is an astonishing removal of a key tool in the transport engineers toolbox. @BOROUGHPHIL. You're delightfully colourful portrayal of the subways as some kind of dystopian den of inequity really is quite far from the truth. Muggings for example are currently more likely at surface level in this junction than the subways according to Community Wardens. Crime and antisocial behaviour can also be 'designed out' it needn't require police presence, as you imply yourself, but that needn't require demolition. Take inspiration from the anyone peddling goods down there and formalise trade by excavating space for shops down there.

2. Southwark Council have been arm twisting to take away transport infrastructure and convert it to recreation space as a sweetener for Delancey. That's Cllr Peter John's excuse. Isn't that a bit excessive at such a busy junction with no intended reduction in road usage? Isn't recreation space (indoors or outdoors) more suited to the new shopping centre, Market Square, Walworth Square, Elephant Park or the existing fringes of the roundabout (e.g. outside LCC)? TfL certainly thought so today, but they've had to work with Southwark's brief, as Southwark and their developers are part funding the change.
Current: 9 of 22

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