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New Bermondsey to Borough bus route needed

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Thursday 10 October 2013 9.52am
Bermondsey really could do with a new bus route to London Bridge. Odd we don't have one now.

As said above, Long Lane would indeed be a preferable route, with a right turn at the end of the road, but that's only feasible if the bus goes along Jamaica Road / Abbey Street. Doesn't really help you if you live along Southwark Park Road, but close enough to Grange Road to be helpful I'd have thought.

I reckon both would be helpful. Some sort of consensus on which is preferable? If we ask for the same thing we stand more of a chance.
Thursday 10 October 2013 12.03pm
The C10 already goes along Abbey St and Long Lane towards Borough so not sure another route there is necessary richard_badger. It is more that nowhere along Southwark Pk Rd and Grange Rd is there a direct bus towards London Bridge. There are thousands of people living along or near to those roads and many of them work or need to visit hospitals, schools etc in that area. In fact as Maria stated the diversion of the C10 to Southwark Pk Rd /Grange Rd was great for those of us that live in that area as it meant that there was finally a bus that took us in the direction of London Bridge.
Thursday 10 October 2013 2.29pm
I'm afraid I have to agree with southwarkSimon, richard_badger. I'd add that as well as the C10 going along Abbey St to Borough, there are already several buses running along Jamaica Rd to London Bridge. As Miriam pointed out in her original post, the gap that needs filling is Southwark Park/Grange Rd. to London Bridge via Borough High St. If there was a way to get it to run down Long Lane as well, that would be the perfect route, but as others have already pointed out, there's no way that a bus (even a small hopper-type one) could negotiate a left turn at either the junction at Bermondsey St/Long Lane or TBR and Abbey St/Long Lane.
Auntie Pat, you are spot on about Guy's Hospital. Considering how close we are as the crow flies, for people with mobility problems or frail and elderly people, getting to Guy's without help can be quite a challenge. I mentioned this point when I wrote to Valerie Shawcross in the summer. If our new route then carried on from Guy's to St. Thomas' Hospital, I know a few people who would also be happy! I don't think there's a bus that links the two hospitals (the C10 comes closest).
Do email Valerie Shawcross personally. It is one thing to complete surveys which can be very useful, but they tend to be impersonal and the questions aren't necessarily relevant for everyone.
Thursday 10 October 2013 4.28pm
What worries me, living close to Borough station, is the idea of yet another bus route (there are already five) on the overcrowded stretch of Borough High Street between Borough station and London Bridge, and another bus, like the 21, turning right out of Great Dover Street at a junction that often becomes jammed in the rush hour.

Dependent on the completion of the building works at London Bridge station and the reopening of St Thomas Street, and the eventual return of the roads in the north of the borough into something like normal usage (whatever that may entail), what about a route Southwark Park Road-Grange Road, right on Tower Bridge Road, left on Druid Street-St Thomas Street, returning via Tooley Street-Tower Bridge Road? And it would be very convenient for the hospital.

Presumably when St Thomas Street reopens some of the west-bound buses that currently clog Tooley Street may use St Thomas Street anyway.

I'm sure those who know the streets better than I do can comment on whether the route would be feasible for buses, and whether it would be useful to Bermondsey residents.

Or what about simply diverting the westbound 381 (already a very convoluted route) from Jamaica Road back down Southwark Park Road-Grange Road-Tower Bridge Road and then to St Thomas Street as above, instead of its present route straight along Jamaica Road? (I think it used to run along St Thomas Street before the closure anyway.) Tho' I'm sure many users of the present route will object!
Friday 11 October 2013 9.42am
Sarah V wrote:
...If our new route then carried on from Guy's to St. Thomas' Hospital, I know a few people who would also be happy! I don't think there's a bus that links the two hospitals (the C10 comes closest)....

Doesn't the 381 run from London Bridge by Southwark Street-Stamford Street-Waterloo to County Hall, a couple of hundred yards from St Thomas's?
Friday 11 October 2013 1.10pm
John C wrote:
Or what about simply diverting the westbound 381 (already a very convoluted route) from Jamaica Road back down Southwark Park Road-Grange Road-Tower Bridge Road and then to St Thomas Street as above, instead of its present route straight along Jamaica Road? (I think it used to run along St Thomas Street before the closure anyway.) Tho' I'm sure many users of the present route will object!

You are right John C, the 381 is already a very convoluted route and diverting it down Southwark Park Road and back up Tower Bridge Rd will definately not improve the already unreliable service on that route.

I would also add that the Grange Road / Tower Bridge Road junction in my opinion suffers worse congestion than the Great Dover St / Long lane / Borough High St junction (and not only at rush hour due to the effect of the opening times of Tower Bridge) so a right turn there does not seem a good solution.

I am aware of the 5 bus routes between Borough Station and London Bridge: 21, 35, 40, 133 & 343, the point I've made is that none of these serve Grange Rd were there is an ever increasing population and demand for public transport, we don't have the convenience of living close to a tube station.
Friday 11 October 2013 3.44pm
Thanks, Miriam. That's what I hoped to provoke, an explanation why people in Bermondsey who, judging by the various messages that have been posted, want particularly to get to London Bridge and Guy's Hospital should be asking for a bus route that will take them all the way round by Great Dover Street and Borough High Street.

In making my point about the five routes along Borough High Street I did not intend to say 'we've already got a choice of five buses to take us from Borough station to London Bridge, we don't need any more', but simply to suggest that you can't just put an extra bus on an already overcrowded street - particularly if there's an alternative route it could take. It's presumably the sort of thing TfL has to take into consideration when planning routes.

I used to commute using the no 21 bus, and still occasionally sit in one stuck at the Borough station crossroads before the crawl up Borough High Street to the final grand jam at London Bridge. It's not something I'd wish to inflict on anyone coming from Bermondsey - particularly if they were trying to get to Guy's for an appointment. On the other hand I've not experienced the Grange Road/Tower Bridge Road junction on a bus - though I see the 78 bus manages it.

Talking of difficult junctions - Sarah V's suggestion that the new route (having come up Borough High Street) should be extended to St Thomas's Hospital would seem to entail an impossible left turn into Southwark Street and the reverse on the return journey. Sorry to nag, but my proposed route via St Thomas Street (once it's reopened) could simply follow the present 381 route via Southwark Street to County Hall.

That 381 route, Peckham to Waterloo via Surrey Quays and a complete tour of the Surrey docklands(?), looks extraordinary - I must ride it one day! (Perhaps it should be divided into two overlapping routes anyway - that's the usual remedy for long, complicated and unreliable services.)

In the meantime I certainly wish the people of the Grange Road/Southwark Park Road area success in getting your new bus.
Friday 11 October 2013 4.07pm
John C wrote:
Sarah V's suggestion that the new route (having come up Borough High Street) should be extended to St Thomas's Hospital would seem to entail an impossible left turn into Southwark Street and the reverse on the return journey

Unless it crossed over the junction of Borough High Street onto Marshalsea Road, turned right onto Southwark Bridge Road and left at the junction onto Southwark Street. Like this - https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zWaP1I2TJf6U.ka-yBBda_tuM.

This would also avoid the crowded section of Borough High Street between St George The Martyr and London Bridge.
Friday 11 October 2013 4.33pm
Truthmonkey-home wrote:
John C wrote:
Sarah V's suggestion that the new route (having come up Borough High Street) should be extended to St Thomas's Hospital would seem to entail an impossible left turn into Southwark Street and the reverse on the return journey

Unless it crossed over the junction of Borough High Street onto Marshalsea Road, turned right onto Southwark Bridge Road and left at the junction onto Southwark Street. Like this - https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zWaP1I2TJf6U.ka-yBBda_tuM.

This would also avoid the crowded section of Borough High Street between St George The Martyr and London Bridge.

Yes, but that wouldn't take it anywhere near its desired destination of London Bridge/Guy's Hospital!

Personally, I'd certainly like a bus route along Marshalsea Road-Southwark Street, like Truthmonkey's proposal, to take me to Waterloo, but it wouldn't help our fellow citizens in Grange Road get to London Bridge.
Friday 11 October 2013 4.54pm
Thank you for your wishes John C.
I'm just wondering if the route couldn't go up Borough High St and then turn into London Bridge Station where there'd be a stop and then out again and right into Southwark Street. This would be really handy for using the super new station as well as getting pretty close to Guy's. I'm not sure what the layout will be for the buses at the new London Bridge Station but I'm assuming that there'll still be bus stands there. Does anyone know?
I think Miriam's fears about a snarl-up at the junction with Grange Rd and Tower Bridge Rd have nothing to do with the junction itself (as John C. mentions, the 78 negotiates the right turn fairly easily) but it's more to do with the heavy traffic on Tower Bridge Rd compounded by the bridge going up several times a day. It frequently comes to a total standstill and the knock on effect goes all the way down to Bricklayers and roads joining TBR. Getting to an urgent appointment using the 78 can be fairly hit and miss.
I'd completely forgotten about the 381 as hardly use it because of the weird and wonderful route it takes and its unreliability. Good luck on your day out with the 381, John C. You could be gone for some time. Definitely not a good idea to divert it onto Grange Rd!
I quite like truthmonkey's suggested route, even if it doesn't go up to London Bridge station and Guy's. Seems a pretty sensible way to avoid the Borough High St. congestion that John C is talking about.
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