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20 mph speed limit not for Bikes

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Sunday 27 July 2014 6.07pm
johnnytee wrote:
Gavin Smith wrote:
Johnnytee, I've been to all three of the countries you cite with approval. In the case of the Netherlands, yes, they have much better infrastructure but their cycling "style" is aggressive and with no regard to other road users. I've been there many, many times and have cycled - and driven - extensively throughout the country, not just Amsterdam. We need to be careful.
"How could it be?" Well, how about a cyclist hurtling towards you - on a pavement - and blindly ringing their bell and just continuing in your direction, ignorantly believing that you must move just because they have rung their bell.



I do think Netherlands is a paradise transport wise compared to London. People in their 70's cycling in safety -OAPS dying of old age on their bikes is now not uncommon I hear. Less obesity. Far safer roads than here. Friends riding to hospital while heavily pregnant for check ups. 80% of primary school kids going by bike unaccompanied...of course your experience may differ to mine but again, I'd rather be hit by a bike than a car (e.g. london) if an accident does happen.

On the 2nd point why would a bike in the N's be on the pavement? I'm not doubting it happened if you say so, but a bike would be on a heavily traffic calmed road or a seperate cycle route - there is almost no need for them to be on the paths.

Back to the main thread point, it is illegal/ unenforceable to have a 20mph limit apply to cycles, discriminatory when only 1%? of cyclists can maintain that speed, and is unnecessary - if a cyclist hits a pedestrian injuring them then prosecute them for dangerous behaviour (what they *have* done, not what they *might* do).

There are many "shared spaces" in the Netherlands (it does appear to be an EU directive of sorts) and I have to agree with everything Gavin said about the cyclists over there, if anyone thinks we have militant cyclists over here, they should spend a weekend in the Netherlands. The abuse you get, and your on a shopping precinct!
Zoe
Monday 28 July 2014 5.59am
I agree, cyclists in London are polite and well mannered compared to those in Holland. It shows that it's not the type of transport used that matters, but who is in the majority so feels able to bully everyone else!
Monday 28 July 2014 6.31am
johnnytee wrote:
it's a silly debate that hides the truth. cars/lorries are the problem for both pedestrians and cyclists

Not really. Cars and lorries tend to stay on the carriageway, and also tend to stop at junctions/zebra crossings, etc. They also tend to stop behind the white lines at junctions, and not place themselves in the pedestrian crossing space.

...if you press it, they will come.
Monday 28 July 2014 7.47am
Zoe wrote:
I agree, cyclists in London are polite and well mannered compared to those in Holland. It shows that it's not the type of transport used that matters, but who is in the majority so feels able to bully everyone else!

I agree that a majority of cyclists in London are comparatively polite and well behaved. However, it's the vociferous and bullying minority that drive the agenda. In that context, the polite and well-behaved majority are irrelevant. In the bigger context, the bullying cyclists in my opinion contribute to drivers' hostility towards cyclists in general, which, as a further knock-on effect, endangers ALL cyclists' lives and that of others, e.g. pedestrians, as well. If the behaviour in Holland really is as described (not experienced it myself), you want it nipped in the bud before it becomes the norm in London, and I think cyclists should take their share of responsibility. If indeed behaviour in Holland is that bad, we should learn from it in order to prevent it from getting out of hand here as well.
Monday 28 July 2014 11.28am
I always think that there is little point of imposing speed limits with no resources to enforce them. A much more sensible solution would be to impose the 20 mph limit when children in Southwark are travelling to and from school 8.15- 9.00 am and 3.00 - 4.00 pm. Then all drivers & cyclists would obey the 20 mph limit and it would not course unnecessary delays when the roads are much quieter.
Monday 28 July 2014 12.02pm
johnnytee wrote:
eDWaRD WooDWaRD wrote:
johnnytee wrote:
callan, what a load of steaming crap you talk. have a look at the accident statistics and come back when you have an informed opinion and not just prejudices.

Fantastic community spirit. Very constructive.

I have had little community spirit from you, and have little back, my stasi-minded friend.
Oh dear. I am sure there is a Godwin's law somewhere for people who resort to comparison with the GDR version of the Gestapo to try and "win" an argument. You are quite fond of making those kinds of comparisons, are't you. Oh well. I stand up to the bicycle bullies on the street, I am not going to take that to this board.
Monday 28 July 2014 12.21pm
marcusm wrote:

With the exception of this report on statistics, I could find little evidence. The following paragraph perhaps sums up the report

"While cars kill five times more pedestrians than bicycles, a rather different picture emerges when "serious injuries are measured as a proportion of distance travelled", the paper says. Cyclists injured 21 pedestrians per billion km travelled in 2012 compared with 24 pedestrians injured by drivers."

Read more: http://www.theweek.co.uk/uk-news/57065/cyclists-almost-likely-injure-pedestrians-cars#ixzz38YeOXize

Clever misrepresentation, this. In 2013 motorways, rural "A" roads and rural minor roads accounted for more than 60% of all vehicle miles travelled, and such roads have little to no pedestrian presence. If there are no pedestrians around, it's not possible to injure them.
Monday 28 July 2014 12.26pm
I can't believe the Council not only applied a 20mph limit for cars but left the cyclists with no speed limit. My wife would of appreciated a 20mph limit for cyclists on Southwark Bridge Rd when she was knocked over by a speeding cyclist who jumped the lights. It will just add to this ridiculous air of superiority that some cyclists have. Its enough for me to jump to voting for the Conservative or UYKIP parties as they appear to be the only parties that want to control the behaviour of bad cyclists
Monday 28 July 2014 12.28pm
Sandgrown Dave wrote:
marcusm wrote:

With the exception of this report on statistics, I could find little evidence. The following paragraph perhaps sums up the report

"While cars kill five times more pedestrians than bicycles, a rather different picture emerges when "serious injuries are measured as a proportion of distance travelled", the paper says. Cyclists injured 21 pedestrians per billion km travelled in 2012 compared with 24 pedestrians injured by drivers."

Read more: http://www.theweek.co.uk/uk-news/57065/cyclists-almost-likely-injure-pedestrians-cars#ixzz38YeOXize

Clever misrepresentation, this. In 2013 motorways, rural "A" roads and rural minor roads accounted for more than 60% of all vehicle miles travelled, and such roads have little to no pedestrian presence. If there are no pedestrians around, it's not possible to injure them.

Does it say that rural "A" roads and rural minor roads are included in this. or how do you know that is the case?
Monday 28 July 2014 12.32pm
Ivanhoe wrote:
Cars and lorries tend to stay on the carriageway...
As do the overwhelming majority of cyclists, of course.

Ivanhoe wrote:
...They also tend to stop behind the white lines at junctions, and not place themselves in the pedestrian crossing space.
Actually where there is an ASL many motor vehicle drivers do not stop behind the correct white line, but rather place their vehicle so as to occupy the cycle reservoir.
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