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Bike 'gate' on Trinity Street

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Wednesday 15 October 2014 4.02pm
Ivanhoe wrote:
Wulfhound wrote:
Half the problem Ivanhoe is that the cyclists there are coming off Great Dover Street - it can take people a bit of time to adjust from "dealing with traffic on main road" mentality to "ambling along at a gentle pace with pedestrians".

Sorry, but I completely disagree.

As a pedestrian, a cyclist, a motorcyclist, or a car driver, I have to use observation and forward planning to actively moderate my speed according to where I'm going.

If I cycle off the road and onto shared space, I KNOW what I'm doing. It's an active choice. And I have the choice as to whether to proceed with caution and consideration to pedestrians, or to put my head down and go full pelt.

Ivanhoe - are you sure this area is actually or legally 'shared space'? I've just been to look at it. What I see is a clearly delineated cycle track, cobbled to mark it off from the pavement, and with white cycle logos on it, passing through a raised pavement area, with bollards at the Trinity Street/Falmouth Road end. There are actually no signs announcing its status, but it certainly looks like a segregated cycle track.

If so, it's surely up to us as pedestrians to take as much care when crossing it (or even stepping onto it) as we would when crossing any road. Probably more care, since when crossing a road we rely so much on our hearing to give early warning of the approach of motor traffic, and bikes are notoriously silent!

(While I was there I watched a motorcyclist coming from Falmouth Road using the cycle track to reach Great Dover Street.)
Wednesday 15 October 2014 4.31pm
Wulfhound wrote:
...
As to the gates - it's pretty sad if disabled cyclists, tandem riders, families with cargo bikes etc. end up losing out because of some selfish *&%ús on mopeds who can't stick to the law. I'd have thought an enforcement blitz is what's needed there. Crush their noisy, smelly little mopeds and give them clean, quiet e-bikes instead?

It's not mopeds that are at issue, Wulfhound. Opening or widening the 'gate' sufficiently to give a clear straight-through passage for tricycles, cargo bikes, mobility scooters etc will equally give a straight-through passage for any large motorcycle - at any speed. We then have to rely on motorcyclists obeying the law and not passing a 'cyclists only' sign. Experience (as at the Falmouth Road cycle track) suggests that a minority of motorcyclists will be prepared to break the law to avoid the diversion round by Cole Street.

Like Zoe, I'm in two minds about the gate. I've never been sure of its function since the links by Swan Street, Globe Street and Trinity Street/Falmouth Road to Great Dover Street were closed to motor traffic. The proposed Quietway is a route I sometimes cycle - but I usually use the Cole Street bypass and straight into Globe Street to avoid the gate!
Wednesday 15 October 2014 4.47pm
John,
You are clearly bonkers. I've just typed out a reasoned reply to your post, but my computer's lost it.
Come for a drink at The Roebuck and I'll show you what I mean.

...if you press it, they will come.
Wednesday 15 October 2014 5.28pm
I think John is right that it is a cycle lane, rather than 'shared space', but those on bicycles have to take some responsibility for cycling at a speed that is appropriate to their surroundings.

If the cycle lane cuts across a pedestrian area in the way it does, then those using it should really cycle in a manner which allows them to deal with any hazards that may present themselves.
Wednesday 15 October 2014 11.32pm
Almost precisely my point, Guys St, except that I'd go a little further.

In my eyes, regardless of the markings on the road, a cycle route like the one by The Roebuck, that cuts across pedestrian space, leaving ped's no option but to cross (aka share) the cycle space means that no reasonable human being on two wheels would think to insist on their "rights" over a human being on two feet.

It's 20 yards, at most. Why on earth would anyone think it's reasonable not to prepare to slow down? "Rights" aren't the issue.

...if you press it, they will come.
Thursday 16 October 2014 9.13am
Ivanhoe wrote:
Almost precisely my point, Guys St, except that I'd go a little further.
In my eyes, regardless of the markings on the road, a cycle route like the one by The Roebuck, that cuts across pedestrian space, leaving ped's no option but to cross (aka share) the cycle space means that no reasonable human being on two wheels would think to insist on their "rights" over a human being on two feet.

It's 20 yards, at most. Why on earth would anyone think it's reasonable not to prepare to slow down? "Rights" aren't the issue.

But then a road is the same (as in it cuts across pedestrian space, leaving pedestrians no option but to cross), and I see more drivers pushing speeds that are inappropriate for the conditions than I can count, on a dailly basis, and the majority of pedestrians also take responsiblity themselves when crossing a road.
Thursday 16 October 2014 9.24am
OK, fine. If that's the way you think I'm not going to push against it. You're responsible for your own actions, and if you can hold those views without being embarrassed then I suspect there's little I can do to change them.

...if you press it, they will come.
Thursday 16 October 2014 10.21am
Ivanhoe wrote:
OK, fine. If that's the way you think I'm not going to push against it. You're responsible for your own actions, and if you can hold those views without being embarrassed then I suspect there's little I can do to change them.

I think you've misunderstood me (or I didn't make myself clear).

I agree entirely that people using a cycle path should consider that there will be pedestrians around them possibly sharing that space with them - I just also believe that in essence this is no different to people using a road - however the difference seems to be that nobody seems to complain too much when cars persist with driving at the legal speed limit (or beyond) even when the conditions don't really make it approriate to do so.
Thursday 23 October 2014 1.15pm
From last night's #askpeterjohn

@councilassembly
#askpeterjohn Next Q is about the Quietway cycle route running through Trinity Church Square


@councilassembly
#askpeterjohn PJ promises further consultation and review re Quietway bike route plans for Trinity Street
Tuesday 16 December 2014 12.44pm
The council and TfL have ruled out a diversion via Swan Street and Cole Street:

http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/documents/s50813/Appendix%20N%20Officer%20response%20to%20Cole%20Street%20Swan%20Street%20diversion.pdf

The changes to the Trinity Street gate will be reviewed after a year.

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