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Development on top of Southwark Station

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Zoe
Thursday 5 March 2015 10.10pm
I'm quite amused that we are being accused of being nimbys when we have spent the last fifteen years working with different developers, including TFL, to try to come up with a development for both Southwark tube station and the area around our block.

Much of our anger is the arrogant way this has been announced. No attempt has been made to speak to Southwark or residents and apparently they will be acquiring land owned by Southwark. Presumably developers are so used to getting what they want they know they will.

For those who go on about London growing in population. None of the thousands of flats built in SE1 in the last few years have been for anything but the super rich. Developers are getting incredibly rich (and probably paying very little tax) while ordinary people are driven out. Why would we welcome that? It doesn't make us nimbys, it makes us people who care about the local area and who want to fight to keep it for more than just the super rich.
Friday 6 March 2015 12.26am
Zoe wrote:
I'm quite amused that we are being accused of being nimbys... .

Calling people nimbys is the laziest form of debate. In my opinion, the same principle that inspired Godwin's Law applies to it. As far as I am concerned, you call someone a nimby, you've lost the argument. Some use it purely to aggravate people anyway, hoping to diminish issues people really care about. It's practically trolling without having the guts to admit to it.
Zoe
Friday 6 March 2015 7.36am
Yes, I hadn't thought of it that way, but you are quite right.
Friday 6 March 2015 9.40am
eDWaRD WooDWaRD wrote:
Zoe wrote:
I'm quite amused that we are being accused of being nimbys... .

Calling people nimbys is the laziest form of debate. In my opinion, the same principle that inspired Godwin's Law applies to it. As far as I am concerned, you call someone a nimby, you've lost the argument. Some use it purely to aggravate people anyway, hoping to diminish issues people really care about. It's practically trolling without having the guts to admit to it.

Well, it's not really like that, is it?

NIMBY has a meaning. One that's quite specific and that we all understand. It does apply to some people in some circumstances, and as such it's a useful term for those circumstances.

Some acquaintances, in another part of the country, happily accept that their attitude to some proposed planning in their village is motivated by NIMBYism.

All that's happened here is that someone's said Karen's posts smack of NIMBYism, and Karen's replied to say that her motivations are in fact very different.

Hardly trolling.

...if you press it, they will come.
Friday 6 March 2015 11.08am
Taking a swipe at people doesn't help though because it always distracts from the issue being discussed. There is genuine reason for concern about any development around Blackfriars Road. Not because I/we are against the area being developed, but because of the boring, repetitive nature of the new developments, and that is tall glass buildings with unaffordable homes that are often bought by foreign investors, and all that locals get out of it is a Pret. Companies like Development Securities don't care about local communities or whether people have a home, they are working for their shareholders, you only have to look at their February press release to see this; 10m gone out to shareholders. In the case of this proposed development, they have announced that they will be building on land owned by Southwark Council and the council is saying that there is no such agreement. I'm sure they are arrogant enough to think they will buy it, but if they can behave like this at this early planning stage, what are they going to be like when it comes to negotiating the more important issues. So let's stop swiping at each other, disagree with our/ my comments by all means- I'm used to it!- but don't call us/me names.
Friday 6 March 2015 11.29am
Am a bit surprised at the personal attacks towards Karen here. She is only highlighting issues that affect all of Southwark, how our planners seem powerless or unwilling to fight any proposals, that developers put forward. How the consultation process rarely changes anything once the planning applications have been put forward. How party politics seem to have made the councillors rubber just stamp anything Southwark planners recommend.

Was reading this TfL press release of this. It does seem to suggest Southwark Council is very much part of the plan. It seems to go much further than just the tube station, so it is only fair to wonder whatever all this means "Specifically, the redevelopment will enhance the environment around Isabella Street, a popular pedestrianised street that runs alongside the development site."

I think it is right for us to discuss this in public already now, as I think we have learned fromk past developments that once they get to the stage where planning applications are put in, all the details will have been checked and decided between the developer and the council planners, so we need to get our opinions out there earlier than the actual consultation.

Everybody has known for years this development is coming, but this are the first concrete details of what will be a major development so it should be discussed.

Here's the link to the TfL site:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2015/march/new-partnership-to-transform-area-around-southwark-tube
Friday 6 March 2015 2.55pm
"Nimby" in this case is lazy, Karen Zoe and co know full well that there is going to be development on the land in question, from what I can make out they fully accept that fact.
They are surely entitled to have an opinion on what's going to be built there, they'll be looking at it more than the rest of us.
Friday 6 March 2015 3.28pm
Unfortunately the core issue of the overdevelopment of the North of the borough should come as no surprise to anyone. The generic and dense communities that are being created are part of the current ruling group's plan for Southwark as openly described in their manifesto - develop the North to fund the South of Southwark. If you voted in the last election and that vote was for Labour this type of urban regeneration and development is exactly what you have supported.
Friday 6 March 2015 5.51pm
Southwark now says they have not agreed to sell land:

http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/8115
Friday 6 March 2015 6.46pm
I'm sure Southwark hasn't agreed anything, but they have been approached by the developers; this is how it works. It's the arrogance of DevSec that I'm most annoyed by as it's not their first press release about working with Southwark and jumping the gun.
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