Mint Street Park development (disgrace)

I'm sick of people who tar everyone with the same brush. I see children behaving badly, shall we ban them all too? I pay tax and get to use a park for my children or dogs, as does everyone else. A little consideration is all that is required for everyone to get along.

Zoe wrote:

I'm sick of people who tar everyone with the same brush. I see children behaving badly, shall we ban them all too? I pay tax and get to use a park for my children or dogs, as does everyone else. A little consideration is all that is required for everyone to get along.

I'm not sure that I've ever seen a park full of children's poo.

What sort of bad behaviour is it that you see children exhibiting in parks, Zoe? I've only ever seen them playing - which is kind of what most parks are for, isn't it?

I've certainly never seen children running loose and scaring dogs, whereas I've definitely seen the opposite happen.

There are already areas set aside to exercise dogs in Southwark's parks...

I am an absolute dog nut, all shapes and sizes, whatever breed. Sometimes when grandchildren , great grandchildren drive me barmy I feel like they should be in kennels! But children in these cases should take priority.

I don't know the small dog park mentioned and I know dogs love to run and play in parks especially if their owners have to work. Is it not possible for owners to take their dogs along the river walks on a lead, wear them out then go to the small park? Would it be to far to get to Southwark or burgess park? Kennington used to have a massive dog only area.

Dogs don't leave beer cans or drug paraphernalia , and children don't go sniffing each other's bums...each have plus and minus traits.

ChloeB wrote:

In response to the critiques of the dogs being off the lead in Mint Street park. Yes, as a very local dog owner we do let our dogs exercise in the park and the majority of us are very considerate and pick up after our dogs. One of the main reasons we do use the park as there is so little local space to exercise them. I do believe we can use the space in harmony.
For children, besides Mint Street walled playground (where dogs are not allowed), there is Little Dorrit park which is both large, has a children's playground and furthermore which dogs are not permitted in. On the left of the park is a small dog park and although used for smaller dogs, it really isn't fit for larger ones. This is one of the reasons why Mint Street is ideal. You can throw balls and play with sticks etc. As much as I always have dog bags on me to clean up mess, we can not control where dogs take a pee regardless of if if they are on a leash or not.

If the concerned parent is worried about local pets in the area, I would suggest that Little Dorrit is a good area to also utilize. Most of the local dog owners who use Mint Street would love to introduce their dogs to the kids. Indeed most of the local kids know and are familiar with them and pose no danger. I do believe we can all use the park in harmony which is why I suggested CCTV to help discourage anti-social behaviour (including those inconsiderate owners who do not pick up and give the rest of us a bad name).

While I am really annoyed by parents, kids or others leaving their mess/rubbish behind (that unfortunately happens too often). I do not think we can put dogs at the same level as human beings, especially kids. You cannot precisely control where dogs pee and poo. In view of the size of MSP and the number of dogs visiting, it is filthy as hell (and this regardless dogs owners clean after number 2s). There are too few parks in SE1 to have them spoiled by dogs. These parks are also for adults that would like to sit on dog fluids-free areas whithout necessarily going to Little Dorrit.

And yes, unleashed dogs are dangerous (and not only to kids), especially the kind of dogs we see in the area. I would not describe the wounds of a person I know that was attacked by a dog while jogging in a London park, or the deep scar on the face of a kid I know that was attacked by a lovely harmless family dog. The steep increase of dog attacks in London from last year is really worrying (+76%). Speaking to a few dog owners recently, I do not feel many are aware of the harm their innocent lovely dog could cause to people.

Banning access to dogs in MSP would make sense for both hygienic and safety reasons.

I hope the £400,000 figure was a mistake. If that's true then it's a complete waste of public money. I didn't see anything wrong with the old park and in fact I think it looked better than the new one (like many others I hate the runway in the middle).

Hi MarcoC

Sadly the 400K is not a mistake. The cost was told to the community group which was the money budgeted for the project (which was not delivered according to the approved plans).

In regards to the above comments, I like both Children and dogs and I don't think that banning dogs in all parks is the way to go. There are places that designated pet free and that should be respected. However to say that dogs (of which there are many in north SE1) should be banned from all Southwark parks is a knee jerk reaction.

I see human waste in these parks too. Men peeing all over and more recently feces which I think we can all agree is unpleasant. There are very few large parks in SE1, and to get to Burgess park would take a good 45 min to walk to from my house, so sadly isn't a viable alternative. I could take the bus, however there would be an even larger outcry of being in a small confined space - especially if one of the bus patrons was afraid of dogs for example.

Yes kids run about in parks and scream - that is called playing as Ivanhoe mentions. On the flipside, I have also seen kids run up and tease dogs. It goes both ways. I have seen some wonderful kids come up and ask if it is alright to pet your dog. This is also what I was taught. I agree with Zoe, a little consideration on both sides goes a long way.

Sadly I have to disagree with BoroughResident and one could equally argue that unleashed and unsupervised kids are also dangerous. I am not saying that children and pets should be placed on the same level but my point was that Dorrit has a large space to kick balls to the side of the playground and is dog free. There have been an increase of incidents of dog bites in London but that is understandable given the equally large increase in dog ownership as many urbanites forgo having children.

I don't in any way want to make light of any attack and my sympathies to your friend but I was trying to make sensible suggestions which make the park available to all of those who want and need to use it. There is nothing also stopping the humans who want to sit out to bring a blanket or towel, if the thought that they may be sitting on something they don't wish to (this is often what I do in MST).

In regards to the waste, I think more bins are swiftly needed and also they need to be cleared out more regularly. I think one of the reasons MST often looks tired is all the trash flying about from the over-flowing bins, the half left sandwiches and other lunchtime mess. The blame for this can only be left at the feet of the adults who use the park (not the kids or the dogs).

BoroughResident wrote:

ChloeB wrote:

In response to the critiques of the dogs being off the lead in Mint Street park. Yes, as a very local dog owner we do let our dogs exercise in the park and the majority of us are very considerate and pick up after our dogs. One of the main reasons we do use the park as there is so little local space to exercise them. I do believe we can use the space in harmony.
For children, besides Mint Street walled playground (where dogs are not allowed), there is Little Dorrit park which is both large, has a children's playground and furthermore which dogs are not permitted in. On the left of the park is a small dog park and although used for smaller dogs, it really isn't fit for larger ones. This is one of the reasons why Mint Street is ideal. You can throw balls and play with sticks etc. As much as I always have dog bags on me to clean up mess, we can not control where dogs take a pee regardless of if if they are on a leash or not.

If the concerned parent is worried about local pets in the area, I would suggest that Little Dorrit is a good area to also utilize. Most of the local dog owners who use Mint Street would love to introduce their dogs to the kids. Indeed most of the local kids know and are familiar with them and pose no danger. I do believe we can all use the park in harmony which is why I suggested CCTV to help discourage anti-social behaviour (including those inconsiderate owners who do not pick up and give the rest of us a bad name).

While I am really annoyed by parents, kids or others leaving their mess/rubbish behind (that unfortunately happens too often). I do not think we can put dogs at the same level as human beings, especially kids. You cannot precisely control where dogs pee and poo. In view of the size of MSP and the number of dogs visiting, it is filthy as hell (and this regardless dogs owners clean after number 2s). There are too few parks in SE1 to have them spoiled by dogs. These parks are also for adults that would like to sit on dog fluids-free areas whithout necessarily going to Little Dorrit.

And yes, unleashed dogs are dangerous (and not only to kids), especially the kind of dogs we see in the area. I would not describe the wounds of a person I know that was attacked by a dog while jogging in a London park, or the deep scar on the face of a kid I know that was attacked by a lovely harmless family dog. The steep increase of dog attacks in London from last year is really worrying (+76%). Speaking to a few dog owners recently, I do not feel many are aware of the harm their innocent lovely dog could cause to people.

Banning access to dogs in MSP would make sense for both hygienic and safety reasons.

Serious question, where would they do what they have to do ( The dogs I mean )?
I'm getting your not a dog fan.

MarcoC wrote:

I hope the £400,000 figure was a mistake. If that's true then it's a complete waste of public money. I didn't see anything wrong with the old park and in fact I think it looked better than the new one (like many others I hate the runway in the middle).

A handbrake turn away from the 'canines v kids' debate and back onto (at least for the moment) the original subject.

Dear BOST, the following from your website:
BOST works closely with local people. We want to make sure improvement ideas are meaningful and meet local needs, so we consult the people who live in the area before a change is implemented. For each of our parks and community gardens we support a local steering group to guide us in improvements.

BOST are aware of the anger and disquiet aroused by the park's redesign and cost. Perhaps someone could kindly respond with the Trust's point of view, and address the issues raised, such as why some of the features implemented were thought to be appropriate? Hopefully, not too much to ask of an organisation that benefits from local people's donations, fund raising and volunteer efforts?

Well, (indulge me) as someone who sat in a "committee" meeting in, about, 1970 in the "Fox and Hounds" building opposite with the aim of setting up an adventure playground, I am just impressed that we can still argue over the future of a community space.

After all, it's worth a Mint.

Boroughonian, fab pedigree there!

Am a little surprised by the comments on dogs versus children, given the constant complaining about the behaviour of young people (which I don't subscribe to by the way, I think it's very unfair generalising in that way). I see the detritus left behind by children all the time in parks eg sweet wrappers, used nappies and juice cans. I am always amazed when I see parents let their children play football when surrounded by people, forcing them to dodge the balls and eventually move away. It's annoying but it's probably a minority of users, just as it is with dog owners.

If dogs are banned from parks then there will be a loss of the biggest users of parks. Parks may be full of people in summer, but dog owners are there all year round and are the eyes and ears for problems. The battle I had with southwark about the lighting in Christchurch was because I walked there in winter, but everyone benefits from better lighting.

It's just incorrect to say that dogs are dangerous to people, there are millions of dogs in the UK and a tiny number of attacks.

In relation to the original subject (yes, I know it was me going off topic there!) I would be surprised if BOST managed the works, it was probably southwark as it's their park/money, so perhaps it's southwark who should be answering Jane's question, rather than BOST.