Druid Street market a "Living Hell" exaggeration

boroughonian wrote:

kevinruairi wrote:

But the people who went to that pub in the past and got drunk there are different to the people who might be going there now and getting drunk so it should definitely be opposed.
I passed by the market last Saturday and it was awful - decent food, people drinking respectfully, no shouting or aggressive behaviour, local traders doing well - what a nightmare.

Is the pub being opposed? I can't imagine why, yet another local establishment that's no longer for the locals.

I wonder why you are so passionate about a market that you merely pass by, it feels like a kind of reverse reverse snobbery.

In other words, &%$^ the locals.

Who are these 'locals' you're talking about?

Guy's street wrote:

boroughonian wrote:

kevinruairi wrote:

But the people who went to that pub in the past and got drunk there are different to the people who might be going there now and getting drunk so it should definitely be opposed.
I passed by the market last Saturday and it was awful - decent food, people drinking respectfully, no shouting or aggressive behaviour, local traders doing well - what a nightmare.

Is the pub being opposed? I can't imagine why, yet another local establishment that's no longer for the locals.

I wonder why you are so passionate about a market that you merely pass by, it feels like a kind of reverse reverse snobbery.

In other words, &%$^ the locals.

Who are these 'locals' you're talking about?

I suspect the post by kevinruairi is a tongue-in-cheek observation intended to suggest that the negative comments about the reincarnation of the pub and the behaviour of visitors to it and the market are just a bit exaggerated....?

Guy's street wrote:

boroughonian wrote:

kevinruairi wrote:

But the people who went to that pub in the past and got drunk there are different to the people who might be going there now and getting drunk so it should definitely be opposed.
I passed by the market last Saturday and it was awful - decent food, people drinking respectfully, no shouting or aggressive behaviour, local traders doing well - what a nightmare.

Is the pub being opposed? I can't imagine why, yet another local establishment that's no longer for the locals.

I wonder why you are so passionate about a market that you merely pass by, it feels like a kind of reverse reverse snobbery.

In other words, &%$^ the locals.

Who are these 'locals' you're talking about?

I'm assuming that he means the "real people". You know, the ones subject to "ethnic cleansing". There are several threads about it. Although I'm not sure what the fuss is about: if this is a pub for "foreign investors who will never even come to the UK" and "non existent occupants" then it is surely a poor business endeavour that will fail rather quickly.

That may have come off a bit too rude - apologies, not my intention. I'm just tired of the "us and them" attitudes that seem to pervade this board. SE1 has changed and continues to change, but one of the things that makes it great is the mix of people from all walks of life. Things in SE1 will be different from the past, but let's not pretend that the past in SE1 was some wondrous utopia. Let's just try to rein in the embellishment and hyperbole.

janefs wrote:

I suspect the post by kevinruairi is a tongue-in-cheek observation intended to suggest that the negative comments about the reincarnation of the pub and the behaviour of visitors to it and the market are just a bit exaggerated....?

Thank you janefs. That's exactly what I was getting at.

I'm not sure how any -public- house can be seen as exclusionary. Unless they've got a bouncer on the door checking your income and your accent.

sjac wrote:

That may have come off a bit too rude - apologies, not my intention. I'm just tired of the "us and them" attitudes that seem to pervade this board. SE1 has changed and continues to change, but one of the things that makes it great is the mix of people from all walks of life. Things in SE1 will be different from the past, but let's not pretend that the past in SE1 was some wondrous utopia. Let's just try to rein in the embellishment and hyperbole.

Completely agree.

When I went to look at the market when it first started I was uncomfortable as a) it was very close to people's homes and b) it did feel exclusive rather than inclusive.

I understand that the layout has since been changed so the traders are not so near to the residential bit.

However hyperbolic some of the original concerns were last year that gave rise to this thread, I would appreciate it if people reined in the attitude a bit and didn't mock people for caring about social and economic inclusion.

Guy's street wrote:

sjac wrote:

That may have come off a bit too rude - apologies, not my intention. I'm just tired of the "us and them" attitudes that seem to pervade this board. SE1 has changed and continues to change, but one of the things that makes it great is the mix of people from all walks of life. Things in SE1 will be different from the past, but let's not pretend that the past in SE1 was some wondrous utopia. Let's just try to rein in the embellishment and hyperbole.

Completely agree.

So who's the "us" and who's the "them"? You don't have a concept of who the locals are.

Kevin's attitude to concerns/complaints from the local residents has been dismissive from the start, to the point of borderline trolling. The us and them don't come from the locals, it doesn't really come from the new lot, it does come from the developers though and a blind eye is turned by the new lot. If you lived in that part of the Arnold, what is there for you? What shops? What pubs? They're the locals I speak of.

I have constantly stated, on here, that we can coexist, and that would be my dream, it's not happening though and the new lot aren't ever going to complain about that.

boroughonian wrote:

Guy's street wrote:

sjac wrote:

That may have come off a bit too rude - apologies, not my intention. I'm just tired of the "us and them" attitudes that seem to pervade this board. SE1 has changed and continues to change, but one of the things that makes it great is the mix of people from all walks of life. Things in SE1 will be different from the past, but let's not pretend that the past in SE1 was some wondrous utopia. Let's just try to rein in the embellishment and hyperbole.

Completely agree.

So who's the "us" and who's the "them"? You don't have a concept of who the locals are.

Kevin's attitude to concerns/complaints from the local residents has been dismissive from the start, to the point of borderline trolling. The us and them don't come from the locals, it doesn't really come from the new lot, it does come from the developers though and a blind eye is turned by the new lot. If you lived in that part of the Arnold, what is there for you? What shops? What pubs? They're the locals I speak of.

I have constantly stated, on here, that we can coexist, and that would be my dream, it's not happening though and the new lot aren't ever going to complain about that.

I've lived in Bermondsey for 10 years - am I 'new lot' or 'old lot'? I'd certainly consider myself a local. I've visited the market, I've visited pubs like the Gregorian and the St James before and after changes of ownership in recent years. I've found both more welcoming post-renovation. Not sure if that's because of the way I look, the way I talk, or just the attitude of the ownership and clientele that has changed.

As for people living in the Arnold Estate, they have access to the same shops and the same pubs as everyone else in the area - or am I missing something?

Guy's street wrote:

boroughonian wrote:

Guy's street wrote:

sjac wrote:

That may have come off a bit too rude - apologies, not my intention. I'm just tired of the "us and them" attitudes that seem to pervade this board. SE1 has changed and continues to change, but one of the things that makes it great is the mix of people from all walks of life. Things in SE1 will be different from the past, but let's not pretend that the past in SE1 was some wondrous utopia. Let's just try to rein in the embellishment and hyperbole.

Completely agree.

So who's the "us" and who's the "them"? You don't have a concept of who the locals are.

Kevin's attitude to concerns/complaints from the local residents has been dismissive from the start, to the point of borderline trolling. The us and them don't come from the locals, it doesn't really come from the new lot, it does come from the developers though and a blind eye is turned by the new lot. If you lived in that part of the Arnold, what is there for you? What shops? What pubs? They're the locals I speak of.

I have constantly stated, on here, that we can coexist, and that would be my dream, it's not happening though and the new lot aren't ever going to complain about that.

I've lived in Bermondsey for 10 years - am I 'new lot' or 'old lot'? I'd certainly consider myself a local. I've visited the market, I've visited pubs like the Gregorian and the St James before and after changes of ownership in recent years. I've found both more welcoming post-renovation. Not sure if that's because of the way I look, the way I talk, or just the attitude of the ownership and clientele that has changed.

As for people living in the Arnold Estate, they have access to the same shops and the same pubs as everyone else in the area - or am I missing something?

Newbie.........and that's okaaaaayyy.

Look maybe my wish to keep class out of this and speak of locals and newbies is a bit off, maybe I should come right out and mention class or maybe relative affluence?

So you found the St James tavern more welcoming, well I know people that think that it's a lot less welcoming, indeed, when it was being refurbed the new people made a point of announcing that they were going to change the clientele, aggressive talk, and sent a message to my imaginary locals. Difference is, they have been using the pub for years and feel ostracised, whereas you have waltzed in and judged everything and everybody.

I reiterate, I'm no class warrior, but fairs fair.....and it aint.