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Druid Street market a "Living Hell" exaggeration

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Thursday 20 October 2016 1.59pm
boroughonian wrote:
Newbie.........and that's okaaaaayyy.
Look maybe my wish to keep class out of this and speak of locals and newbies is a bit off, maybe I should come right out and mention class or maybe relative affluence?

So you found the St James tavern more welcoming, well I know people that think that it's a lot less welcoming, indeed, when it was being refurbed the new people made a point of announcing that they were going to change the clientele, aggressive talk, and sent a message to my imaginary locals. Difference is, they have been using the pub for years and feel ostracised, whereas you have waltzed in and judged everything and everybody.

I reiterate, I'm no class warrior, but fairs fair.....and it aint.

I've not waltzed in and judged anybody....

There's no point ignoring the fact that class is a big part of this discussion. I'm not sure referring to certain estates as being excluded has any relevance. I'm middle class and own an ex-council flat. Some of my neighbours are the same, some rent privately, some still rent from the council, some have bought the flats from the council through right to buy. These estates are a real mix in terms of class and culture and certainly where I am, it's never caused any problems. I get on with my neighbours. I see them using the same shops and other facilities I do, whether that is pubs or otherwise - some use them, some don't. I can't see why the Arnold Estate is any different just because it is located directly next to this market.
Thursday 20 October 2016 2.02pm
Agree with all you say, Boroughonian. You have put it very nicely.

Guy's Street wrote:
As for people living in the Arnold Estate, they have access to the same shops and the same pubs as everyone else in the area - or am I missing something?

Depends what you define "access" as. 6 for a 330 ml can of "craft" beer, lager, whatever, is exorbitant and a rip off. Each to their own - maybe some of the Arnold lot would like to partake - but I'm still recovering from the sheer stupidity of it. Who in their right mind would pay that? Then have to stand in the street to drink it?
Thursday 20 October 2016 2.32pm
Gavin Smith wrote:
Agree with all you say, Boroughonian. You have put it very nicely.
Guy's Street wrote:
As for people living in the Arnold Estate, they have access to the same shops and the same pubs as everyone else in the area - or am I missing something?

Depends what you define "access" as. 6 for a 330 ml can of "craft" beer, lager, whatever, is exorbitant and a rip off. Each to their own - maybe some of the Arnold lot would like to partake - but I'm still recovering from the sheer stupidity of it. Who in their right mind would pay that? Then have to stand in the street to drink it?
Agreed, I wouldn't pay that either. I'm sure some in the Arnold Estate would/could if they chose to, and besides, there are other products available at more reasonable prices - I quite often buy half a dozen of the beers at a cheaper price and drink them at home.

I also wouldn't pay 50 for a bottle of champagne from Tesco but it doesn't mean I don't have access to Tesco.
Thursday 20 October 2016 4.00pm
Boroughonian puts it far more eloquently then I can!

Guy's Street wrote:
I also wouldn't pay 50 for a bottle of champagne from Tesco but it doesn't mean I don't have access to Tesco.

Tesco stocks something for everyone. The subject places don't stock anything for anyone other than their target rip-off audience. Someone looking to buy a 2 can of lager, say, would only be able to buy it from the local convenience store.
Thursday 20 October 2016 5.24pm
A bit of tangent but this is a fascinating discussion. And its got me thinking on which category I fall into - a 'local' or a 'newbee'. I'm in my mid 40's and have lived in SE1 for 18 years. So I wasn't born in the area so maybe not a local. But am I newbee after spending over half my adult life is SE1. I like all the changes that have happened since I moved in and can't think of a single one that I haven't. Although maybe if I thought hard, I might find one or 2...the increase in traffic I guess is one.
Thursday 20 October 2016 8.30pm
LukeGrangeWalker wrote:
A bit of tangent but this is a fascinating discussion. And its got me thinking on which category I fall into - a 'local' or a 'newbee'. I'm in my mid 40's and have lived in SE1 for 18 years. So I wasn't born in the area so maybe not a local. But am I newbee after spending over half my adult life is SE1. I like all the changes that have happened since I moved in and can't think of a single one that I haven't. Although maybe if I thought hard, I might find one or 2...the increase in traffic I guess is one.

Haha I was with you right up until then. No doubt, you're right to go with the times, but a local would find it a lot harder, maybe age is a part of it, I get upset when a building I had hardly noticed comes down, I doubt my kids do. Actually, thinking about it, I doubt my kids have the same feeling of ownership/stake that we had/have, probably feel like strangers.
Thursday 20 October 2016 9.05pm
Guy's street wrote:
boroughonian wrote:
Newbie.........and that's okaaaaayyy.
Look maybe my wish to keep class out of this and speak of locals and newbies is a bit off, maybe I should come right out and mention class or maybe relative affluence?

So you found the St James tavern more welcoming, well I know people that think that it's a lot less welcoming, indeed, when it was being refurbed the new people made a point of announcing that they were going to change the clientele, aggressive talk, and sent a message to my imaginary locals. Difference is, they have been using the pub for years and feel ostracised, whereas you have waltzed in and judged everything and everybody.

I reiterate, I'm no class warrior, but fairs fair.....and it aint.

I've not waltzed in and judged anybody....

There's no point ignoring the fact that class is a big part of this discussion. I'm not sure referring to certain estates as being excluded has any relevance. I'm middle class and own an ex-council flat. Some of my neighbours are the same, some rent privately, some still rent from the council, some have bought the flats from the council through right to buy. These estates are a real mix in terms of class and culture and certainly where I am, it's never caused any problems. I get on with my neighbours. I see them using the same shops and other facilities I do, whether that is pubs or otherwise - some use them, some don't. I can't see why the Arnold Estate is any different just because it is located directly next to this market.

Well the "Jamo" is a lot more welcoming now according to you, so you must be judging someone.
Friday 21 October 2016 1.15am
Anyone who has chosen to make SE1 their home and become part of the fabric of the neighbourhood is a local to me. I think a more appropriate term for those who have lived here their whole lives may be "native". That said, I have a feeling that by "local" some people really mean "South London-born working class".

boroughonian, I doubt that your kids feel like strangers - they probably just have a different view of what is normal in SE1 than you do.
Friday 21 October 2016 11.34am
Gavin Smith wrote:
Boroughonian puts it far more eloquently then I can!
Guy's Street wrote:
I also wouldn't pay 50 for a bottle of champagne from Tesco but it doesn't mean I don't have access to Tesco.

Tesco stocks something for everyone. The subject places don't stock anything for anyone other than their target rip-off audience. Someone looking to buy a 2 can of lager, say, would only be able to buy it from the local convenience store.

And if someone is looking to buy a 6 can of craft lager they can only buy it from the market or the brewery.

Its great that Bermondsey has something for everyone. Everywhere doesn't have to appeal or cater to everyone.
Friday 21 October 2016 2.10pm
I dont really understand what is the issue with the 6 beer.

This is beer that is locally made, by people, who put in a lot of effort and passsion. Yes you can get some imported mass manufactured beer from Canada or Belgium cheaper, but as a community concious local wouldnt it be good to support local businesses? Even if that means you can afford a beer less than otherwise? It will always be more expesive to produce beer here in SE1 than on a giant industrial site.
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