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TFL consulatation "Smartphone displays Uber app London taxi rules would 'end Uber'"

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Wednesday 30 September 2015 6.14pm
I am not sure I quite get it. The app I use the most is Hailo, a black cab one, also Gett, the same. I do have Uber, mainly for the US, Addison Lee for trips to airports and Taxi Bleu and Taxi G7 for Paris.

Most black cab drivers understand the world is changing and are signing up to apps ( and are beginning to have contact card payment.) Why TFL is trying to support the unreformed minority defeats me, they should support us, the customers.

The most common way for me to get a cab is to walk to the end of the road and put my hand out.

( I can't wait for Tom Pepper to join this debate.)
Wednesday 30 September 2015 6.49pm
One thing no one mentioned here, is that the measures TFL is proposing apply to all private hire vehicles not only to Uber: minicabs would also be subject to them.

The measures in question are:


Specific requirement for an English language test

New training for private hire vehicles

Operators must give a specified fare prior to
a booking being accepted

A fixed landline must be available at all times


These all sound like reasonable requirements to me.
Wednesday 30 September 2015 7.07pm
Jules

Those are not the only measures;

"Operators must not show vehicles being available for immediate hire either visibly or virtually via an app."

That is the killer. It won't kill Hailo because black cabs are governed by one set of regulations and, of course, can show visibly they are available for hire.

Uber and the rest are governed by different, private hire regulations. In essence, under the current rules, you need to pre-book them, hence the five minute delay being proposed. But I think it will turn out to be a distinction without a difference. Much will depend on the Government's attitude, there are a number of cases where local councils have tried to limit competition in the taxi trade and have failed in court.

I guess this is where this one will end up.

Taxi!
Wednesday 30 September 2015 7.51pm
theedy wrote:
I guess this is where this one will end up.

Where: The Government Cabinet, the London Assembly, or the County Court?

The current system allows for users to hail a black cab on the street, or to book it or a minicab by phoning the company or using other communication technology.

One may not hail a private hire vehicle (PHV), and PHV operators may not tout for business.

What the Uber app attempts, is to bypass these processes by way of an app that works pretty much as a way to hail a nearby cab.

Many people love Uber because it is cheaper than a traditional black cab, but this organization exploits its drivers and turns a few capitalist entrepreneurs into millionaires, while all transport and insurance costs are borne by the drivers themselves.

Worldwide, there is much opposition to this, and it isn't simply the case of so called 'cartels' getting their knickers in a twist.

BTW: A cartel is what happens when all providers get together and conspire to fix prices, but black cab prices aren't set by the drivers or their representatives.
Wednesday 30 September 2015 8.21pm
"this organization exploits its drivers"


Not sure about that, they seem happy enough to do what they do.

I had a ride in Seattle last year with one of the local cabs, not Uber, he was an economics professor but had to have a second job because the rules on support in university meant he earned too much and so could not get State support for his daughter. As you can imagine he was a delightful driver.

Similarly, there is, a few hundred yards from here, a female Black Taxi driver who is also a TV camera person. She finds that role intermittent so had trained as a cab driver. That is the sort of personal betterment that these propsals will kill. As you can imagine she was apped up to the hilt.
Wednesday 30 September 2015 10.25pm
theedy wrote:
"this organization exploits its drivers"

Not sure about that, they seem happy enough to do what they do.

I am referring to these instances:

http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2015/jul/14/hillary-clinton-criticises-the-uber-business-model-for-exploiting-workers

https://www.reddit.com/r/uberdrivers/comments/2putou/uber_gets_away_with_blatantly_exploiting_drivers/

http://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/17201/uber_s_business_model_screwing_its_workers

I could go on, and on, and on.

But you too could do the same if you took a few minutes out of your busy schedule and undertake some research.
Thursday 1 October 2015 9.13am
All your links relate to the US operation, not the UK operation, and each region works differently. Maybe you should spend more time ensuring your "research" is accurate.

Also this whole "UBER exploits it's workers" angle is ridiculous. All UBER drivers are freelance contractors, look it up, they don't have to work for UBER if they don't like it.
Thursday 1 October 2015 9.55am
Gegabone,
As a person who, apparently, unlike me, knows a lot about UBER and its operations in each region which are different to the others could you explain those differencies or are they minor tweaks, maybe imposed by employment laws in the various regions.
How was Jules's research inaccurate ? It might not have been world-wide embracing but that does not make it inaccurate. You may have different evidence from the USA to the contrary.Please share.
From my point of view Jules has shown there is exploitation and because some people allow themselves to be exploited it does not mean they are not being exploited.
Thursday 1 October 2015 2.24pm
To quickly outline a rough explanation:

So Taxi drivers sign up to UBER and if they satisfy a list of requirements set here:

http://driveuberuki.com/london

they might be accepted as an UBER Taxi Member where they are then provided access to the platform as freelance contractors who can opt-in to work when the want.

Most UBER drivers work for other Taxi firms from smaller generalised taxi companies to executive companies and use UBER when work is slow or they have no jobs to work, others are genuinely independent and can work full time dedicated to UBER if these wish, in the end it's their choice.

When a driver feels like working the driver logs in to UBER on their dedicated app and set themselves available to take jobs.

How can drivers be exploited if they aren't contractually bound to a firm? They can work no hours or as many as they want, they have no obligation to work for UBER and there's no work time requirements from UBER on the driver.

So if a driver doesn't like the pay from UBER then they have no obligation to work for UBER, in fact the main motivator to use UBER as a driver is the access to the platform and to receive money for fares.

The way that anti-uber people swing stories is to focus on drivers who have over extended themselves and invested their money to work as TAXI drivers to use the UBER platform exclusively. Essentially self employed taxi drivers who have hedged all their bets.

And with any freelance self employed job there is risk, it's not exploitation if people make error's of judgement and it's not the fault of the platform they use.
Saturday 3 October 2015 12.41am
In recent news:

http://www.london24.com/news/business/you_can_submit_fake_signatures_to_the_save_uber_petition_1_4257167

It appears that the smartphone revolution is more a Coup d'état than an actual Revolution...
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