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New E&C road layout appears to be working?

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Current: 14 of 22
Thursday 18 February 2016 2.44pm
sjac you may be right but then it just causes problems elsewhere-long lane is tailing back as i have said in another thread and this may be people trying to avoid the E&C problems-it therefore does not reduce traffic at all just moves it to be someone elses issue
Thursday 18 February 2016 3.11pm
sjac wrote:
Many of these complaints ignore the possibility that reduced vehicle traffic is one of the goals of the redesign. Increased journey times and frustration from drivers will eventually result in less people making their journey by private car, which can actually result in decreased journey times for public and alternative transport (which achieves one of TFL's aims). I wouldn't be surprised if by summer the congestion was reduced to pre-redevelopment levels or better as people make the choice just to avoid driving in the area.
That said, the red light jumping/junction blocking is absolutely amazing not just in the areas mentioned above, but all over London. It's crazy that we need to paint giant yellow lines at an intersection so that drivers don't simply park in the middle of it at a red light. In most other countries it's illegal to enter an intersection unless there is a clear path of exit - why do our traffic laws allow this at all?


While agreeing with you that TFL introduce these manufactured traffic jams in the forlorn hope that people will give up their vehicles and switch to public transport, the reality is that initially drivers will seek alternate routes, and eventually clog those too, or if the traffic eases a tad because a few drivers are avoiding a certain junction, they and other drivers will chance using that junction again.

You say that in other countries it's illegal to block junctions, well it is here too.

http://yellowboxjunction.co.uk/Yellow-Box-Junction-What-the-Law-says.htm
Thursday 18 February 2016 5.36pm
But, sjac, if you look at the vehicles being affected (certainly Monday to Friday) they're largely not private vehicles - it's taxis, vans, trucks, buses: people trying to get to work or do their work and (in the process) keep the economy ticking over, food in the shops, things built and fixed etc.
Thursday 18 February 2016 5.50pm
In both of the two intimate meetings I was granted with the TfL designer of The Bend Carlo and project manager Hugo Terry I asked was traffic reduction an objective. Some of the local fans of TfL proposals and piazzafication championed them because of the false assumption they were intentionally anti-road user. TfL said this wasn't the case, not even shifting car users onto bikes, it was modelled on existing traffic too, not modelled to accommodate forecast growth. I suggested extra capacity for all users would be good, that transport flow should be prioritised not a pointless polluted piazza, given the likely new demand from the council's encouragement of very high urban densification and new car parking spaces, but Fiona Colley (Labour Cabinet Memeber for Regen at the time) defended my criticism by quoting a 10 year trend of declining road use in central London, a trend I recall was primarily to do with congestion charging but I think seems pretty unlikely to be a long term trend without a significant change in road charging policy and extension of the zone to include E&C!

TfL acknowledged that their finely tuned proposal would only work by removing one portion of traffic, which was the left turn from Newington Causeway, which gave them the bonus of an additional piazzetta outside Wetherspoons. They designed The Bend to work at capacity, and the increased congestion would be contained within roads leading to it, that they described as having 'spare' capacity.

With reference to Ivanhoe's comments about an alternative design, I agree entirely. A roundabout, some more inviting better signposted subways etc, a substantial renovation of a dilapidated junction that made it safer and more pleasant to pass through... instead of the primary TfL+Council objective of making it a place to linger for pleasure with a piazza that Cllr Peter John has said in writing was essential to attract a developer for the shopping centre, something Delancey have since told me they cared little about when making their investment decision, they just wanted very obvious renovation at the junction. This short video explains what I proposed to TfL instead, an intentionally very pragmatic solution, nothing wonderfully radical such as vehicle tunnels because I wanted it to be affordable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYVIKcxtDfY
Thursday 18 February 2016 7.22pm
Can we finally change the title of this thread please? It isn't working for pedestrians, cars or buses.

The new pedestrian crossing on New Kent Road between the shopping centre and the Elephant & Castle pub is one of the worst. There are huge tailbacks and drivers reaching this crossing seem desperate to get away. Almost every pedestrian green phase sees several cars and sometimes buses and lorries thunder through.

There used to be a lovely tunnel, now filled with concrete. This is of course the crossing that already claimed a life.
Thursday 10 March 2016 4.23pm
Traffic crossing red lights - This is the bigest problem I think.
Thursday 10 March 2016 5.25pm
benmoore wrote:
Traffic crossing red lights - This is the bigest problem I think.
I agree, for safety it's the false sense of confidence pedestrians get from green man that many drivers end up trundling through that is currently a key danger.

In due course, a few weeks from now, when the assorted bollards and fences are removed I anticipate even more pedestrians will take the many short cuts that the new crossings fail to satisfy with safe provision.

It's curious to note the TfL Safety Audit (revealed today) requested the guard rail on the Link Road be reinstated after the designers proposed removing it (as they had for a few months in 2011 after the southern junction was revised), yet the audit failed to spot that the new median strips along the rest of The Bend are also equally (it not more so), attractive and dangerous short cuts for pedestrians. Pedestrians are already regularly crossing via these slivers even when their route ends with a temporary barrier they have to shuffle along. Once the barriers go the appeal will be even greater given the very poorly placed, impracticality slow, and chronically dangerous formal crossings. Thankfully some of the informal crossings, like the triangular island at the mouth of St George's Road (that was meant to be a pedestrian-deterring raised flower bed but was cost-reduced in a barter with the architect and TfL to be a paved island with one tree in it), don't appear quite so dangerous as others. The new crossing a few metres up the road is barely used given the appeal of the desire line that of naturally mirrors the old more direct route of the subway.
Monday 14 March 2016 7.33pm


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Tuesday 15 March 2016 8.30am
Predictably vague answers hiding the fact they have figures from their modelling, and are hopefully collating the reality of the impact soon, that forecast detrimental impact on the location in terms of congestion and air pollution.

Meanwhile I have a little more detail behind some of the mirage that set up why the changes were needed. That headline perception of it being a danger to pedestrians that I've challenged for a while using TfL's own data has been given further proof with Nick Fairholm's breakdown of his data for collisions within 20m of the junction. This is the bit TfL like the emphasise when they talk about cyclists and pedestrians: "Between January 2012 and December 2014, the data we received from the Metropolitan Police show there were 84 recorded collisions resulting in 90 people being injured at the Elephant and Castle northern roundabout. "

But what Nick now reveals is what the 90 people were actually doing: The break down of the number of causalities is 48 pedal cyclists, 15 bus or coaches, 11 powered two wheelers, 11 cars, 4 pedestrians, 1 goods vehicle. This data captures any collision resulting in personal injury (not damage-only collisions). So... cyclists were, as no one has ever doubted or questioned, at risk here, but pedestrians injuries were most similar in likelihood to those of an HGV driver! Yet TfL and our local Labour Politicians parrot the nonsense that it needed to be made safer for them. Sure, even 4 injuries are bad, but it's hard to imagine how removing subways and creating slow, indirect new crossings is going to better that score!

Last night's new line painting of a crossing for cyclists from The Bend's pedestrian island towards London Road's south side pavement (see pics at www.facebook.com/elephantandcastleroundabout) is the latest new addition that I have warned about for months since seeing it on the plans. Although it is still thankfully blocked with temporary bollards, it will invite pedestrians to take the desire line yet has no light controls. It gives a false sense of security, almost like a zebra crossing. It's graphically a more obvious crossing than the two sides of the triangle pedestrians are expected to take, and it complicates and already elaborate junction criss-crossed with white paint. A cycle logo would help suggest it's not for pedestrians, although this route offers little benefit to cyclists, it's dangerous for them if they take it at the same time as a bus!. It's not well established around here that square dashed lines denote a cycle lane, especially since adjacent cycle lanes have blue paint on them or are segregated with kerbs. TfL have been warned, and I've begged Ringway Jacobs to press their concerns to their paymasters.
Tuesday 15 March 2016 10.04am
I am always crossing like this, instead of first crossing London Road and again across half the road. Both crossings have green light for pedestrians, so it makes sense to walk across. Looking forward to a new crossing nearer St George's road.
Current: 14 of 22

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