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Friday 5 February 2016 6.27pm
Dave has set it out exactly how it is.

DebraJoan wrote:
I bow to no one in my general dislike of them, I feel uncomfortable if they are near.

What you have done, DebraJoan, is shown yourself to be a bigot. Would it be acceptable to say that one dislikes black people or gays?
Friday 5 February 2016 6.52pm
Jerry wrote:
Someone else has already reported it.
Fair enough, but I still think you should be letting the police know what you personally witnessed. The more information they have about criminal behaviour, the better.

Jerry wrote:
Specifically the council can also make a huge difference. They have the following powers...
Thank you for explaining.
Zoe
Friday 5 February 2016 9.13pm
It's not telling it how it is, it's bordering on racial discrimination. Listen to yourself. Let's replace "I bow to no one in my general dislike of them, I feel uncomfortable if they are near" and say "I bow to no one in my general dislike of Jews, I feel uncomfortable if Jews are near." No one would accept comments like that and we shouldn't accept it about travellers.

I don't want to get into an argument with anyone but I'm not going to sit quietly while people are being racist against a group of people.

I am also highly amused at the suggestion a car break in carried out in Peckham must have been travellers, on the basis on simple prejudice. Because there is no other explanation of who could possibly have done this crime apart from travellers.
Friday 5 February 2016 10.58pm
You are taking a lot on yourself there Zoe, in suggesting, "how would it sound if I substituted Jews for travellers."
Why would I do that, I know quite a few Jewish people, five or six are very close friends, none of them have ever taken a vehicle to bits, (to my knowledge), sold what parts they could, and left the rest where it fell, surrounded by human waste and other detritus, for someone else to clear up.
The same can be said of black friends, or Asians, be they Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist or Shinto.
I am completely ambivalent toward gay men, I admit, I only have one lesbian friend, but they are are all welcome in my house, and I've had lots of good times in their homes, with them.
You assert that I'm being racist toward a group of people, to wit, travellers, I still don't understand how they came to be a separate 'race', to me they are Caucasian.
Finally, I never suggested that because my sis-in-law's car was tampered with, (frequently), in Gervase Street, it HAD to be by the traveller community, I did feel however, that it was a likely possibility.
So far, nothing has moved me to think otherwise, although I stress, NOTHING has been proven.
I have zero desire to get into an argument either, how about I accept that you think travellers are okay, and you accept that I don't like them at all?
Friday 5 February 2016 11.14pm
It is highly likely your dislike/hate for travellers has marred your ability to think objectively and you have automatically pointed the finger of blame at the travellers with not an iota of evidence to back it up. Zoe's analogy is a good one. Your post has the hallmarks of something a racist would say, reading between the lines: "But some of my best friends are black/Asian/Jewish..."
Saturday 6 February 2016 12.24am
Gavin Smith wrote:
It is highly likely your dislike/hate for travellers has marred your ability to think objectively and you have automatically pointed the finger of blame at the travellers with not an iota of evidence to back it up. Zoe's analogy is a good one. Your post has the hallmarks of something a racist would say, reading between the lines: "But some of my best friends are black/Asian/Jewish..."

Thanks for your psychoanalysis, but I expect better than that from you Gavin, I don't agree with everything you post, but you've always put an intelligent point of view forward in the past.
I haven't trotted out the, "some of my best friends" garbage.
I DO have lots of black, brown, gay, and various shades of white friends, and thank the good Lord that I have.
I don't HATE the travelling community, but I emphatically dislike them, and their attitude in apparently believing that whatever they do, no one can question it, or argue against it.
I also have difficulty in understanding the apparent blanket acceptance that they can dump auto parts, scrap, faeces, etc. anywhere, then slide off and leave it to be cleared by the local Council.
FYI, I haven't pointed the finger of blame at the Gervase St. travelling community, I've suggested that it was a possibility that they may have tampered with my sis-in-law's car, but you're right, I don't have an iota of proof, but IMHO it was not an unreasonable presumption.
Saturday 6 February 2016 1.56am
I think that there have been some silly and unfair analogies made towards DebraJoan (especially given her earlier retraction). She is referencing being uncomfortable with certain people due to the acts they commit, not because of their race or religion. And as PC as we all want to be, there is a a pretty identifiable pattern that follows a traveller community who decide to illegally camp wherever they please. If someone has evidence to the contrary i'd be happy to hear it, but we've already had eye-witness observations of crime and anti-social behaviour.
Saturday 6 February 2016 2.06am
Sjac wrote:
some silly and unfair analogies made towards DebraJoan...
If someone has evidence to the contrary i'd be happy to hear it, but we've already had eye-witness observations of crime and anti-social behaviour...

I think there have been some silly and grossly unfair analogies/stereotypes made of travellers. Assuming that you've lived in these parts for a bit longer than a few minutes, SJAC, you'll know that the particular site we're talking about (Gervaise Street) is a "legal camp" and is home to settled travellers. It is in relation to that "camp" and DebraJoan's suspicion that travellers there have caused damage/theft to vehicle. There are no eyewitness accounts in relation to DebraJoan's complaint, indeed no evidence linking any culprit/group to the crime - just suspicion, fuelled arguably by DebraJoan's dislike of the travelling community - and it is for that that DJ has attracted criticism from myself and others.

No one is condoning or attempting to explain away the alleged actions of others in Crimscott Street. Let's not conflate the two discrete limbs of discussion going on here.
Saturday 6 February 2016 10.00am
I do believe you angels of PC are enjoying attacking DebraJoan for the valid position she has adopted.

She has as much right to her opinion as you all do to yours and she isn't blinded by the desire to be PC and therefore acceptable to the vast majority of posters of this site

I would venture to suggest that being PC does not mean you are right .

There may well be more than assertions/suspicions to DebraJoan's thinking on the events she recalls. You must not assume that the police have investigated this and found no evidence that would identify where the culprits come from, equally you could assume that the police have decided it is better not to pursue their enquiries because that would mean entering a traveller's site and we all know that is a no-no. So a simple explanatory excuse of "We haven't got the manpower/time to investigate such low level crime" suffices. No investigation, no evidence, no culprits

A breech of the peace must be avoided at all costs.
Saturday 6 February 2016 10.54am
Your most recent input was a very reasoned post Gavin, and you're right, the Gervase Street site is a 'permanent' one.
I should have remembered that, as my parents lived in Clifton Way, off Asylum Road until around 2009.
The site probably arrived around that time, if not a tad earlier, but once my parents moved, I was rarely in the area, until my brother moved to a house in Gervase St.
So in that respect, I was probably in error by lumping in semi-permanent residents with itinerant types, with their often deserved reputation.
I really dislike being at odds with the good people of SE1 forum, and fervently hope that this contretemps will now die a natural death.
Should any other possibly contentious matters arise in SE1, traffic, cycling, shops/restaurants opening or closing, pubs closing and being turned into luxury apartments, I will lock my typing hands in a drawer and sit on my natural desire to shout my objections, until I turn puce, and flames begin to emerge from my ears.
I hope that by doing that, I'll eventually be welcome to post, (after first thinking), again.
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