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Religious Nonsense

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Monday 16 October 2017 9.04pm
Tolstoy wrote:
I slaughtered a few chickens to appease the Sun Gods this afternoon. You can thank me when things return to normal.
. Well done!
Cotswolds 12
Monday 16 October 2017 11.33pm
Paramount wrote:
Jules62 wrote:
Paramount wrote:
well I wish our streets could be safe again on a Friday or Saturday evening.... Give me street preachers as opposed to deranged drunken druggies any day... why don't police do something about them instead?

Again? When exactly were the streets of SE1 safe on weekend evenings: during Roman rule?
. When we had more law enforcement officers walking the streets known as Bobbies on the Beat recall????

Yes: but when were our streets actually safe?
Tuesday 17 October 2017 9.23am
Ah yes, the 'old days', where everything was rosy. We live in much more complex times, not always to the greater good emotionally, but which has opened up a treasure trove of possibilities. Alas, it has also led to an increase of dissatisfaction and levels of envy of those outside its riches, which get played out through acts of violence, frustration and despair.

I can empathise with the rough sleepers and the addicts (including alcohol) who have little hope of ever seeing much of the Utopian new world technologists get so excited about. It's a view frankly based on a reductive reading of what moulds society, by those channelled past its more ugly reality. For all the wonders our bright new world has brought it has left many far behind who will likely never reap its rewards.

To quote Frank Henry Loesser, 'Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition'. Increasingly for many it seems a solution, whether lost in a system of belief or seeing violence as a way to the exit. You don't have to read far on your electronic device of choice to see there is much pain and suffering in the world, it is beholden to us all to bind the middle ground and recognise the failings of humanity and seek to educate where we can, free of dogma or an AK47.

Right, about those chickens...
Tuesday 17 October 2017 11.25am
Ivanhoe wrote:
boroughonian wrote:
Ivanhoe wrote:
boroughonian wrote:
Ivanhoe wrote:
Paramount wrote:
Jesus left the synagogue and went on the streets and market places to save sinners...
and Luke Skywalker left Tatooine to fight Darth Vader

Would you ridicule a Muslim like that?
Call it ridiculing if you want to. I wouldn't.
The point I'm making is that just because someone believes in something, that doesn't make it true.
We're all free to believe in whatever we want, which is great.
However, when people present their beliefs as facts then I don't think it's unreasonable to draw attention to that and challenge it.
Some people do claim Jedi as their religion, which was why I specifically chose that example.

Nope, not buying it, I just do not believe you would ever liken the Prophet Mohammed to Luke Skywalker, although I do take your Jedi point.

Street preachers aside, I find that when people want to have a pop at religion, they ALWAYS chose Christianity.....

You don't need to believe me. I know my motivations, which is enough for me.

Re "choosing Christianity", er, that would be because this whole thread is specifically about the Christians being loud at the Elephant, and because I was disagreeing with someone representing Bible beliefs as fact.

You seem to have a point to make about people specifically criticising Christian beliefs as opposed to any of the other beliefs out there. Even if your point were to be true, it's got nothing to do with what I'm saying, which is that ANYONE trying to claim that things are objectively and universally true just because they personally believe them is irrational.

I do indeed, because it's true.

"Jesus left the synagogue and went on the streets and market places to save sinners"

You felt the need to ridicule that statement. I didn't deduce any of the things you accuse the poster of, it was just a statement of his/her belief.

You can, intellectually, dress it up anyway you want.

The term "religious nonsense" as in the title of the thread, would not have been used if complaining about other sections of our society's noisy religious practices.

One thing I will say, I'm a Christian so I believe Islam/Hinduism etc is the wrong message, yet it troubles me that much MUCH brighter people than me are Muslims/Hindus etc.
Does the same thing not trouble atheists?
Tuesday 17 October 2017 11.42am
boroughonian wrote:
I do indeed, because it's true.
"Jesus left the synagogue and went on the streets and market places to save sinners"

It's NOT true.
You believe it, and good luck to you, but that doesn't make it true.

Once again, I wouldn't ridicule anyone's faith, but I would disagree with any argument which says that ANYthing is true just because a person believes it.

...if you press it, they will come.
Tuesday 17 October 2017 3.30pm
boroughonian wrote:
I'm a Christian so I believe Islam/Hinduism etc is the wrong message, yet it troubles me that much MUCH brighter people than me are Muslims/Hindus etc.
Does the same thing not trouble atheists?

Atheists are very similar to those who believe in deities: like them, atheists hold a belief, a belief that there is no God and as is the case with the religious types, atheists have no proof to offer that there is no Good.

Agnostics, such as myself, instead hold no belief on the existence or non existence of of God.

An agnostic will say: "I have seen no evidence of the existence or non existence of a deity, but if I ever do, I will believe".

A hard agnostic will say: "I have seen no evidence of the existence or non existence of a deity, and neither have you. But if I ever do come across the proof, I will believe".

All four of these categories comprise some highly intelligent people, so there is nothing to feel troubled about.
Wednesday 18 October 2017 11.33am
Ivanhoe wrote:
boroughonian wrote:
I do indeed, because it's true.
"Jesus left the synagogue and went on the streets and market places to save sinners"

It's NOT true.
You believe it, and good luck to you, but that doesn't make it true.

Once again, I wouldn't ridicule anyone's faith, but I would disagree with any argument which says that ANYthing is true just because a person believes it.

By "it's true" I meant that Christianity is singled out when people want to have a go at religion generally, I wasn't evangelising, and it is true.

The next time someone tries to tell me that I evolved from bacteria, I will demand the words "I believe" otherwise I will assume he is stating a "fact", which he wouldn't be.

Or that Pyramids were built by a civilisation that hadn't yet invented the wheel and relied on Copper tools. OK I've gone off on one there, but these things are presented as fact, they are not. No one calls them out though.
Wednesday 18 October 2017 11.40am
Jules62 wrote:
boroughonian wrote:
I'm a Christian so I believe Islam/Hinduism etc is the wrong message, yet it troubles me that much MUCH brighter people than me are Muslims/Hindus etc.
Does the same thing not trouble atheists?

Atheists are very similar to those who believe in deities: like them, atheists hold a belief, a belief that there is no God and as is the case with the religious types, atheists have no proof to offer that there is no Good.

Agnostics, such as myself, instead hold no belief on the existence or non existence of of God.

An agnostic will say: "I have seen no evidence of the existence or non existence of a deity, but if I ever do, I will believe".

A hard agnostic will say: "I have seen no evidence of the existence or non existence of a deity, and neither have you. But if I ever do come across the proof, I will believe".

All four of these categories comprise some highly intelligent people, so there is nothing to feel troubled about.

Point taken.
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